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Date: 11 Nov 2008 16:25:08
From:
Subject: what ball do you recomend ?
I use a handshake grip, I throw the ball about 12.5 mph, and I am a
low revolution bowler. also I toss the ball instead of droping it near
the foul line. I stand left of center and prefer a medium hook. any
suggestion's ?




 
Date: 19 Nov 2008 18:05:17
From:
Subject: Re: what ball do you recomend ?
On 19, 2:46=A0pm, Eric <ericw2...@gmail.com > wrote:
> "John O" <johnospama...@lottaspamheathkit.com> wrote innews:Nb0Vk.9088$ZP=
4.6769@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com:
>
> > The last few years I get by with one, but I carry around three
> > because...well, ummm, hell I don't know why.
>
> > Just one man's advice, with a money-back guarantee.
>
> Because you strike fear in the other team when you show up with your thre=
e
> ball bag :)

i just bowled after a league and the oil was pushed down in to the far
end of the lane and I had a hell of a time. by far the worst I have
ever bowled. I also had a few drinks before I started. I figured it
would get me loose, but maybe I was too loose because I could not do a
damn thing out there. it made me want to take all of your advise and
take lessons. I was trying to stay relaxed, but I just could not find
the pocket and I could not throw the ball straight and pick up my
spairs. I have never been so frustrated in my life. I tried everything
and could not make the adjustment. it is hard bowling by your self. I
just could not figure out what I was doing wrong.


 
Date: 19 Nov 2008 13:42:38
From:
Subject: Re: what ball do you recomend ?
On 19, 11:00=A0am, "Darlene Block" <tenpinhawk...@mchsi.com > wrote:
> "PromptJock" <102151.3...@compuserve.com> wrote
>
> >> have you ever seen me bowl ? I don't suck that bad. I average about
> >> 170 to180. that is not great, but it is not bad compared to most
> >> bowlers I see at the two bowling centers I go to. with more practise I
> >> should be able to improve my game with out taking lessons. if not, oh
> >> well. if I decide I want to play in tournaments some day, then I will
> >> take lessons. ease up on me, you are way over critical.- Hide quoted
> >> text -
>
> I didn't mean to offend you, but having coached bowlers for nearly 30 yea=
rs
> I do tend to read between the lines on what skills you have acheived. You
> seem to be a big frog in a small pond. Without lessons that's what you wi=
ll
> always be.
> =A0 =A0 If your average is satisfactory to the point you don't feel the n=
eed for
> lessons, why do you want a new ball? It won't make much difference to you=
r
> game. If you have money to burn and just want the latest toy, go for it.
> =A0 =A0 My ball driller, who writes Torgy's Tips for the magazine Bowling=
This
> Month, suggested a couple of the latest balls for me. I don't know if the=
y
> would fit your game, but they are the latest and the best for me and the
> conditions I face....Cell Pearl by Roto Grip (the Cell has been being
> praised by others here), Black Widow Venom by Hammer and Ebonite's Pin
> Slasher.
> =A0 =A0 I wish you only the best. The idea is to have fun bowling and you=
seem
> to be doing that. =A0 :)
> Dar
>
>
>
>
>
> > Bowlers of your average DO INDEED need help primarily in the following
> > areas:
>
> > =A01) Release consistency
> > =A02) Targeting consistency
> > =A03) Concentration and Focus (the "mental game")
>
> > FYI: I'm currently a 180-ish average bowler (3 houses) and I'm always
> > struggling with (what I call) "cranio-recto infarctus", which causes
> > me to lose my focus, especially after I've bowled a "terrific" (i.e.,
> > 230+) game. =A0At this time, my work schedule precludes me from getting
> > lessons from a Silver-certified coach (I'm a Bronze-certified
> > coach :) ) to help me in the above areas (especially item 3! ). =A0FWIW=
,
> > my equipment is a Roto Grip "Illusion", Storm "Special Agent" and a
> > Columbia 300 "White Dot". =A0Again, when I'm "on the game", I can targe=
t
> > and release very well while avoiding the "cranio-recto infarctions".
> > Unfortunately, when the "infarction" occurs, then it's 'game over",
> > literally.
>
> > As has been suggested: PLEASE get some lessons from a Silver-certified
> > coach! as Dar properly pointed out - the (projected) $250 spent on
> > getting a new ball will probably get you 5 or 6 valuable lessons from
> > a Silver-certified coach.
>
> > Anyhoo, that's all I have for now. =A0Good luck, etc... :)- Hide quoted=
text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I actually do not want a new ball, i was just trying to get a response
on the new balls on the market. what I really need is a four ball
roller bag. damn they are expensive. I can find good deals on the
internet, but the last time I bouhgt a bag on the internet, all of the
zippers went bad in just a few months. I had to sew on velcro. my pro
shop guy said if anything went wrong with items I purchased from him,
he could return them to his distributer and get me another one. the
best deal he can get me is $ 150. or I could get a 3 ball roller for
$99 and just use my add a bag for the fourth ball. I know, I know, I
have way to many ball's for my level of play, but I tend to get
obsesive with my hobby's.


  
Date: 19 Nov 2008 17:12:57
From: John O
Subject: Re: what ball do you recomend ?
> I know, I know, I
> have way to many ball's for my level of play, but I tend to get
> obsesive with my hobby's.

Welcome to the club. :-)

Generality warning...

If you're bowling on a standard house shot, and the oil is fresh (nobody has
bowled on it) when your league starts, two balls is all you should need.
Three if the lanes are wood and they dry out in a big way. The last few
years I get by with one, but I carry around three because...well, ummm, hell
I don't know why.

Just one man's advice, with a money-back guarantee.

-John O





   
Date: 19 Nov 2008 22:46:52
From: Eric
Subject: Re: what ball do you recomend ?
"John O" <johnospamalot@lottaspamheathkit.com > wrote in
news:Nb0Vk.9088$ZP4.6769@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com:

> The last few years I get by with one, but I carry around three
> because...well, ummm, hell I don't know why.
>
> Just one man's advice, with a money-back guarantee.


Because you strike fear in the other team when you show up with your three
ball bag :)


 
Date: 18 Nov 2008 23:21:20
From:
Subject: Re: what ball do you recomend ?
On 18, 10:11=A0pm, PromptJock <102151.3...@compuserve.com > wrote:
> > have you ever seen me bowl ? I don't suck that bad. I average about
> > 170 to180. that is not great, but it is not bad compared to most
> > bowlers I see at the two bowling centers I go to. with more practise I
> > should be able to improve my game with out taking lessons. if not, oh
> > well. if I decide I want to play in tournaments some day, then I will
> > take lessons. ease up on me, you are way over critical.- Hide quoted te=
xt -
>
> Bowlers of your average DO INDEED need help primarily in the following
> areas:
>
> =A0 1) Release consistency
> =A0 2) Targeting consistency
> =A0 3) Concentration and Focus (the "mental game")
>
> FYI: I'm currently a 180-ish average bowler (3 houses) and I'm always
> struggling with (what I call) "cranio-recto infarctus", which causes
> me to lose my focus, especially after I've bowled a "terrific" (i.e.,
> 230+) game. =A0At this time, my work schedule precludes me from getting
> lessons from a Silver-certified coach (I'm a Bronze-certified
> coach :) ) to help me in the above areas (especially item 3! ). =A0FWIW,
> my equipment is a Roto Grip "Illusion", Storm "Special Agent" and a
> Columbia 300 "White Dot". =A0Again, when I'm "on the game", I can target
> and release very well while avoiding the "cranio-recto infarctions".
> Unfortunately, when the "infarction" occurs, then it's 'game over",
> literally.
>
> As has been suggested: PLEASE get some lessons from a Silver-certified
> coach! as Dar properly pointed out - the (projected) $250 spent on
> getting a new ball will probably get you 5 or 6 valuable lessons from
> a Silver-certified coach.
>
> Anyhoo, that's all I have for now. =A0Good luck, etc... :)

having never had a lesson and my average is close to yours, kind of
proves my point. but if I decide to take the game to the next level
(tournaments, ect.) then I will indeed take lessons. thank's for the
advise, you are not nearly as harsh as darleen.


 
Date: 18 Nov 2008 22:11:53
From: PromptJock
Subject: Re: what ball do you recomend ?
> have you ever seen me bowl ? I don't suck that bad. I average about
> 170 to180. that is not great, but it is not bad compared to most
> bowlers I see at the two bowling centers I go to. with more practise I
> should be able to improve my game with out taking lessons. if not, oh
> well. if I decide I want to play in tournaments some day, then I will
> take lessons. ease up on me, you are way over critical.- Hide quoted text -

Bowlers of your average DO INDEED need help primarily in the following
areas:

1) Release consistency
2) Targeting consistency
3) Concentration and Focus (the "mental game")

FYI: I'm currently a 180-ish average bowler (3 houses) and I'm always
struggling with (what I call) "cranio-recto infarctus", which causes
me to lose my focus, especially after I've bowled a "terrific" (i.e.,
230+) game. At this time, my work schedule precludes me from getting
lessons from a Silver-certified coach (I'm a Bronze-certified
coach :) ) to help me in the above areas (especially item 3! ). FWIW,
my equipment is a Roto Grip "Illusion", Storm "Special Agent" and a
Columbia 300 "White Dot". Again, when I'm "on the game", I can target
and release very well while avoiding the "cranio-recto infarctions".
Unfortunately, when the "infarction" occurs, then it's 'game over",
literally.

As has been suggested: PLEASE get some lessons from a Silver-certified
coach! as Dar properly pointed out - the (projected) $250 spent on
getting a new ball will probably get you 5 or 6 valuable lessons from
a Silver-certified coach.

Anyhoo, that's all I have for now. Good luck, etc... :)


  
Date: 19 Nov 2008 19:00:29
From: Darlene Block
Subject: Re: what ball do you recomend ?

"PromptJock" <102151.3223@compuserve.com > wrote

>> have you ever seen me bowl ? I don't suck that bad. I average about
>> 170 to180. that is not great, but it is not bad compared to most
>> bowlers I see at the two bowling centers I go to. with more practise I
>> should be able to improve my game with out taking lessons. if not, oh
>> well. if I decide I want to play in tournaments some day, then I will
>> take lessons. ease up on me, you are way over critical.- Hide quoted
>> text -

I didn't mean to offend you, but having coached bowlers for nearly 30 years
I do tend to read between the lines on what skills you have acheived. You
seem to be a big frog in a small pond. Without lessons that's what you will
always be.
If your average is satisfactory to the point you don't feel the need for
lessons, why do you want a new ball? It won't make much difference to your
game. If you have money to burn and just want the latest toy, go for it.
My ball driller, who writes Torgy's Tips for the magazine Bowling This
Month, suggested a couple of the latest balls for me. I don't know if they
would fit your game, but they are the latest and the best for me and the
conditions I face....Cell Pearl by Roto Grip (the Cell has been being
praised by others here), Black Widow Venom by Hammer and Ebonite's Pin
Slasher.
I wish you only the best. The idea is to have fun bowling and you seem
to be doing that. :)
Dar

>
> Bowlers of your average DO INDEED need help primarily in the following
> areas:
>
> 1) Release consistency
> 2) Targeting consistency
> 3) Concentration and Focus (the "mental game")
>
> FYI: I'm currently a 180-ish average bowler (3 houses) and I'm always
> struggling with (what I call) "cranio-recto infarctus", which causes
> me to lose my focus, especially after I've bowled a "terrific" (i.e.,
> 230+) game. At this time, my work schedule precludes me from getting
> lessons from a Silver-certified coach (I'm a Bronze-certified
> coach :) ) to help me in the above areas (especially item 3! ). FWIW,
> my equipment is a Roto Grip "Illusion", Storm "Special Agent" and a
> Columbia 300 "White Dot". Again, when I'm "on the game", I can target
> and release very well while avoiding the "cranio-recto infarctions".
> Unfortunately, when the "infarction" occurs, then it's 'game over",
> literally.
>
> As has been suggested: PLEASE get some lessons from a Silver-certified
> coach! as Dar properly pointed out - the (projected) $250 spent on
> getting a new ball will probably get you 5 or 6 valuable lessons from
> a Silver-certified coach.
>
> Anyhoo, that's all I have for now. Good luck, etc... :)




 
Date: 18 Nov 2008 10:45:27
From:
Subject: Re: what ball do you recomend ?
On 18, 9:18=A0am, "Darlene Block" <tenpinhawk...@mchsi.com > wrote:
> <Twp1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:9710508a-fd93-4d95-a522-6cc2129300a3@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On 17, 1:55 pm, "Darlene Block" <tenpinhawk...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > It seems that you have new enough equipment to not need anything newer
> > until you learn to bowl better.
> >snipped>
> > I do wonder why the pro-shop sold you such high end balls to someone wh=
o
> > is early in their bowling career. You might want to see someone else fo=
r
> > your next ball.
> > Dar
>
> > <spr272...@netzero.net> wrote
> > On 11, 8:16 pm, spr272...@netzero.net wrote:
> > > On 11, 7:49 pm, PromptJock <102151.3...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > I use a handshake grip, I throw the ball about 12.5 mph, and I am=
a
> > > > > low revolution bowler. also I toss the ball instead of droping it
> > > > > near
> > > > > the foul line. I stand left of center and prefer a medium hook. a=
ny
> > > > > suggestion's ?
> <snipped>
> > > > My initial suggestions
> > > > --------------------------------
> > > > 1) Visit the Pro Shop where you bowl and have the proprietor observ=
e
> > > > you. If the proprietor is worth his/her salt, he/she will be able t=
o
> > > > recommend a new/used ball OR refit/redrill your existing ball if/as
> > > > required.
> > > > 2) GET COACHING LESSONS, only if you have your own ball and shoes! =
I
> > > > type this because lessons are essentially useless if all you're usi=
ng
> > > > is House Balls and House (rental) Shoes because you need a FITTED b=
all
> > > > and YOUR OWN SHOES to gain any real benefit.
> >snipped>
>
> > > > With that typed, it would be a disservice to recommend a ball becau=
se,
> > > > IMO, you need lessons to help you stop TOSSING THE BALL. Once you c=
an
> > > > get the ball rolling out of your hand without it "going
> > > > airborne" (which will translate to better control and more overall
> > > > accuracy), you can then look at getting a new ball (if really
> > > > needed :) ).
> <snipped>
>
> > > > I hope this helps a little bit...
>
> > > many pro bowlers toss the ball. consistancy is the key to bowling, if
> > > you can hit your mark then it does not matter how you get there. ther=
e
> > > is such a huge selection of balls on the market, I was just wondering
> > > if anyone with a similar style had a suggestion. I currently use a
> > > hammer (black widdow) and a storm (double agent). i just started
> > > bowling again after a year and a half away from the game. if there is
> > > a new ball on the market that fits my style, I would like to know wha=
t
> > > it is.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > correction I have a storm (special agent)- Hide quoted text -
>
> How about coming somewhat near ANSWERING the first responder's
> questions?
> All too vauge.......
>
> T
> T, we have been answering the original question. The bowler already has s=
ome
> of the newest and best bowling balls out. He certainly does not need anot=
her
> high end ball. In my opinion he has far too aggressive equipment and no i=
dea
> how to use it. A milder ball, even a used, several years old ball might b=
e
> the best thing to add to his arsenal as PJ suggested. That might be
> something he can control and work with.
> =A0 =A0 =A0If he really wants to bowl better he should quit trying to buy=
strikes
> in a box and learn how to bowl. His next step is not another ball which w=
ill
> only copy what he already has, but GET SOME LESSONS. I hope that is not
> vague.
> Dar
> PS, I snipped part of PJ and my responses to save time rereading this lon=
g
> exchange.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

have you ever seen me bowl ? I don't suck that bad. I average about
170 to180. that is not great, but it is not bad compared to most
bowlers I see at the two bowling centers I go to. with more practise I
should be able to improve my game with out taking lessons. if not, oh
well. if I decide I want to play in tournaments some day, then I will
take lessons. ease up on me, you are way over critical.


  
Date: 19 Nov 2008 14:37:17
From: John O
Subject: Re: what ball do you recomend ?
>
> - Show quoted text -

> have you ever seen me bowl ? I don't suck that bad.

We all have different levels of suckage, that's for sure. :-)


> I average about
> 170 to180. that is not great,

Right, but it's enough to tell folks like Dar that you need to work on
accuracy and spares, not strikes, not yet.


> but it is not bad compared to most
> bowlers I see at the two bowling centers I go to.

Don't compare yourself to them! They have lots of suckage!


> with more practise I
> should be able to improve my game with out taking lessons. if not, oh
> well. if I decide I want to play in tournaments some day, then I will
> take lessons. ease up on me, you are way over critical.

No, she's just being honest. Get lessons BEFORE you start all that practice
or you're likely just practicing the wrong things. For example...my average
took a ~12 pin jump after I spent a summer throwing straight balls at corner
pins and figuring out how to hit the 2, 4, and 7 head on with that straight
ball. Practicing strikes can be good, but if you have a big release problem
or something else that prevents you from being consistent, (pushaway? bad
footwork?) practice isn't going to help.

But have fun anyway, and coaching from a distance is kinda hard unless you
can post video of yourself.

-John O




 
Date: 17 Nov 2008 20:11:19
From:
Subject: Re: what ball do you recomend ?
On 17, 10:55=A0am, "Darlene Block" <tenpinhawk...@mchsi.com > wrote:
> It seems that you have new enough equipment to not need anything =A0newer
> until you learn to bowl better. The money spent on lessons rather than a =
new
> ball would be well spent. The fact that you think professional bowlers ar=
e
> tossing the ball would indicate you can learn a lot. We may use the term
> "toss the ball" but that certainly is not what we are doing. You can not
> TOSS the ball the same every time. You have to be able execute whatever
> release you use the same every time so that you know what the ball will d=
o
> as it goes down the lane.
> =A0 =A0 =A0You also have to read lane conditions so that you know where t=
o "throw"
> the ball and where to move to when the lanes change. There are many thing=
s
> to learn that will help you use those very good bowling balls you already
> have.
> =A0 =A0 I do wonder why the pro-shop sold you such high end balls to some=
one who
> is early in their bowling career. You might want to see someone else for
> your next ball.
> Dar
>
> <spr272...@netzero.net> wrote
> On 11, 8:16 pm, spr272...@netzero.net wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 11, 7:49 pm, PromptJock <102151.3...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I use a handshake grip, I throw the ball about 12.5 mph, and I am a
> > > > low revolution bowler. also I toss the ball instead of droping it n=
ear
> > > > the foul line. I stand left of center and prefer a medium hook. any
> > > > suggestion's ?
>
> > > 1) How old are you? how much do you weigh (not a frivolous question:
> > > body weight DIRECTLY determines how heavy a ball you should use!)? an=
y
> > > physical problems/limitations (i.e., back/knee/shoulder/arm/wrist
> > > problems?)?
> > > 2) Assuming you already have a ball, how heavy is it? what make/model
> > > is it? how is it drilled (conventional or fingertip?)? what is the Pi=
n/
> > > CG position in relation to your fingers?
> > > 3) How long have you been bowling?
> > > 4) If you have a current USBC average, what is it?
>
> > > My initial suggestions
> > > --------------------------------
> > > 1) Visit the Pro Shop where you bowl and have the proprietor observe
> > > you. If the proprietor is worth his/her salt, he/she will be able to
> > > recommend a new/used ball OR refit/redrill your existing ball if/as
> > > required.
> > > 2) GET COACHING LESSONS, only if you have your own ball and shoes! I
> > > type this because lessons are essentially useless if all you're using
> > > is House Balls and House (rental) Shoes because you need a FITTED bal=
l
> > > and YOUR OWN SHOES to gain any real benefit. As USBC certified
> > > "Gold" (highest level!) coach Susie Minshew says, "You can't out-coac=
h
> > > a bad-fitting ball!" This is why it's a MUST to have your own fitted
> > > ball (and your own shoes). :)
>
> > > With that typed, it would be a disservice to recommend a ball because=
,
> > > IMO, you need lessons to help you stop TOSSING THE BALL. Once you can
> > > get the ball rolling out of your hand without it "going
> > > airborne" (which will translate to better control and more overall
> > > accuracy), you can then look at getting a new ball (if really
> > > needed :) ).
>
> > > I'm sorry I can't offer anything "meatier" because you didn't provide
> > > more information AND I haven't personally met you and watched your
> > > bowling.
>
> > > I hope this helps a little bit...
>
> > many pro bowlers toss the ball. consistancy is the key to bowling, if
> > you can hit your mark then it does not matter how you get there. there
> > is such a huge selection of balls on the market, I was just wondering
> > if anyone with a similar style had a suggestion. I currently use a
> > hammer (black widdow) and a storm (double agent). i just started
> > bowling again after a year and a half away from the game. if there is
> > a new ball on the market that fits my style, I would like to know what
> > it is.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> correction I have a storm (special agent)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

from what I have seen on tv, verry few men use the traditional bowling
style. most pro bowlers use a more modern approach and tend to toss
the ball out a bit further down the lane. I did notice that alot of
women use the old school method of finese bowling. but I am a firm
believer if you are consistantly hitting your mark no matter what your
style is, than you can make adjustments accordingly and you will be
just fine. as far as getting a coach is concerned, I think the biggest
attribute would be the mental aspect of the game. I personaly don't
take bowling that seriously, I just play for fun and I don't plan on
taking any lessons. I just have been away from the game a while and
was wondering what the hot selling ball's were. I don't plan on
getting a new one any time soon, I was just seeing what kind of
feedback i would get. and by the way I got the ball's on the internet,
not at a pro-shop. even though I got a great deal, I would not
recomend it because drilling is to expensive. ( it's free if you get
the ball at the pro shop) .


  
Date: 18 Nov 2008 09:08:04
From: litefrozen
Subject: Re: what ball do you recomend ?
spr272000@netzero.net wrote:

> from what I have seen on tv, verry few men use the traditional bowling
> style. most pro bowlers use a more modern approach and tend to toss
> the ball out a bit further down the lane. I did notice that alot of
> women use the old school method of finese bowling. but I am a firm
> believer if you are consistantly hitting your mark no matter what your
> style is, than you can make adjustments accordingly and you will be
> just fine. as far as getting a coach is concerned, I think the biggest
> attribute would be the mental aspect of the game. I personaly don't
> take bowling that seriously, I just play for fun and I don't plan on
> taking any lessons. I just have been away from the game a while and
> was wondering what the hot selling ball's were. I don't plan on
> getting a new one any time soon, I was just seeing what kind of
> feedback i would get. and by the way I got the ball's on the internet,
> not at a pro-shop. even though I got a great deal, I would not
> recomend it because drilling is to expensive. ( it's free if you get
> the ball at the pro shop) .

In regards to coaching
Yes if your not taking bowling seriously, you don't need a coach.

But if a bowler wants to take it seriously, then coaching is important.
For beginners it helps establish good fundamentals and for more advanced
bowlers it helps them take it to the next level.

The mental aspect of the game is important also. A good coach can also
help with that too. Plus there are coaches that specialize in just the
mental aspect of the game.

Also drilling really isn't free at the pro-shop when you by a ball. The
cost is factored into the price of the ball. If you take the shelf price
of the ball and subtract what they charge to drill a blank (A undrilled
ball). The price will be close to the prices on the internet.

The internet prices are cheaper because they buy in bulk, don't drill
them (Though some do), drop shipping etc.

Using the pro-shop is the still the best.they are the best source of
knowledge about bowling in that house. They can recommend balls, fit
your grip and adjust it when needed and offer other services.

Seeing the balls you have already, your right you don't have to get a
new one soon they are just fine. Make sure you maintain them well, a
good cleaning schedule. the Black Widow is a high maintenance ball.

Maybe have them resurfaced if needed.If you just want to change the
reaction just change the surface texture. These can give your ball a
whole new look on the lanes.

As for some current balls being used.
Rotgrips-Cell, Cell Pearl
Hammer- The Sauce
Storm- Dimension


   
Date: 19 Nov 2008 14:47:48
From: John O
Subject: Re: what ball do you recomend ?

"litefrozen" <litefrozen@mothership > wrote in message
news:qIKdnX5lFN7UUb_UnZ2dnUVZ_tTinZ2d@earthlink.com...
> spr272000@netzero.net wrote:
>
>> from what I have seen on tv, verry few men use the traditional bowling
>> style. most pro bowlers use a more modern approach and tend to toss
>> the ball out a bit further down the lane. I did notice that alot of
>> women use the old school method of finese bowling. but I am a firm
>> believer if you are consistantly hitting your mark no matter what your
>> style is, than you can make adjustments accordingly and you will be
>> just fine. as far as getting a coach is concerned, I think the biggest
>> attribute would be the mental aspect of the game. I personaly don't
>> take bowling that seriously, I just play for fun and I don't plan on
>> taking any lessons. I just have been away from the game a while and
>> was wondering what the hot selling ball's were. I don't plan on
>> getting a new one any time soon, I was just seeing what kind of
>> feedback i would get. and by the way I got the ball's on the internet,
>> not at a pro-shop. even though I got a great deal, I would not
>> recomend it because drilling is to expensive. ( it's free if you get
>> the ball at the pro shop) .
>
> In regards to coaching
> Yes if your not taking bowling seriously, you don't need a coach.
>
> But if a bowler wants to take it seriously, then coaching is important.
> For beginners it helps establish good fundamentals and for more advanced
> bowlers it helps them take it to the next level.
>
> The mental aspect of the game is important also. A good coach can also
> help with that too. Plus there are coaches that specialize in just the
> mental aspect of the game.
>
> Also drilling really isn't free at the pro-shop when you by a ball. The
> cost is factored into the price of the ball. If you take the shelf price
> of the ball and subtract what they charge to drill a blank (A undrilled
> ball). The price will be close to the prices on the internet.
>
> The internet prices are cheaper because they buy in bulk, don't drill them
> (Though some do), drop shipping etc.
>
> Using the pro-shop is the still the best.they are the best source of
> knowledge about bowling in that house. They can recommend balls, fit your
> grip and adjust it when needed and offer other services.
>
> Seeing the balls you have already, your right you don't have to get a new
> one soon they are just fine. Make sure you maintain them well, a good
> cleaning schedule. the Black Widow is a high maintenance ball.
>
> Maybe have them resurfaced if needed.If you just want to change the
> reaction just change the surface texture. These can give your ball a whole
> new look on the lanes.
>
> As for some current balls being used.
> Rotgrips-Cell, Cell Pearl
> Hammer- The Sauce
> Storm- Dimension

Last year I threw a 300 and a 299 with a Track Stomp from 2001. I never took
particularly good care of it, but it's been refinished a couple times and
lots of new grips.

In October I picked up a used TotalNV and I love it. Last three weeks: 761,
778, 739. Seriously, I can't believe this streak I'm having.

-John O




 
Date: 17 Nov 2008 19:56:47
From:
Subject: Re: what ball do you recomend ?
On 17, 1:55=A0pm, "Darlene Block" <tenpinhawk...@mchsi.com > wrote:
> It seems that you have new enough equipment to not need anything =A0newer
> until you learn to bowl better. The money spent on lessons rather than a =
new
> ball would be well spent. The fact that you think professional bowlers ar=
e
> tossing the ball would indicate you can learn a lot. We may use the term
> "toss the ball" but that certainly is not what we are doing. You can not
> TOSS the ball the same every time. You have to be able execute whatever
> release you use the same every time so that you know what the ball will d=
o
> as it goes down the lane.
> =A0 =A0 =A0You also have to read lane conditions so that you know where t=
o "throw"
> the ball and where to move to when the lanes change. There are many thing=
s
> to learn that will help you use those very good bowling balls you already
> have.
> =A0 =A0 I do wonder why the pro-shop sold you such high end balls to some=
one who
> is early in their bowling career. You might want to see someone else for
> your next ball.
> Dar
>
> <spr272...@netzero.net> wrote
> On 11, 8:16 pm, spr272...@netzero.net wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 11, 7:49 pm, PromptJock <102151.3...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I use a handshake grip, I throw the ball about 12.5 mph, and I am a
> > > > low revolution bowler. also I toss the ball instead of droping it n=
ear
> > > > the foul line. I stand left of center and prefer a medium hook. any
> > > > suggestion's ?
>
> > > 1) How old are you? how much do you weigh (not a frivolous question:
> > > body weight DIRECTLY determines how heavy a ball you should use!)? an=
y
> > > physical problems/limitations (i.e., back/knee/shoulder/arm/wrist
> > > problems?)?
> > > 2) Assuming you already have a ball, how heavy is it? what make/model
> > > is it? how is it drilled (conventional or fingertip?)? what is the Pi=
n/
> > > CG position in relation to your fingers?
> > > 3) How long have you been bowling?
> > > 4) If you have a current USBC average, what is it?
>
> > > My initial suggestions
> > > --------------------------------
> > > 1) Visit the Pro Shop where you bowl and have the proprietor observe
> > > you. If the proprietor is worth his/her salt, he/she will be able to
> > > recommend a new/used ball OR refit/redrill your existing ball if/as
> > > required.
> > > 2) GET COACHING LESSONS, only if you have your own ball and shoes! I
> > > type this because lessons are essentially useless if all you're using
> > > is House Balls and House (rental) Shoes because you need a FITTED bal=
l
> > > and YOUR OWN SHOES to gain any real benefit. As USBC certified
> > > "Gold" (highest level!) coach Susie Minshew says, "You can't out-coac=
h
> > > a bad-fitting ball!" This is why it's a MUST to have your own fitted
> > > ball (and your own shoes). :)
>
> > > With that typed, it would be a disservice to recommend a ball because=
,
> > > IMO, you need lessons to help you stop TOSSING THE BALL. Once you can
> > > get the ball rolling out of your hand without it "going
> > > airborne" (which will translate to better control and more overall
> > > accuracy), you can then look at getting a new ball (if really
> > > needed :) ).
>
> > > I'm sorry I can't offer anything "meatier" because you didn't provide
> > > more information AND I haven't personally met you and watched your
> > > bowling.
>
> > > I hope this helps a little bit...
>
> > many pro bowlers toss the ball. consistancy is the key to bowling, if
> > you can hit your mark then it does not matter how you get there. there
> > is such a huge selection of balls on the market, I was just wondering
> > if anyone with a similar style had a suggestion. I currently use a
> > hammer (black widdow) and a storm (double agent). i just started
> > bowling again after a year and a half away from the game. if there is
> > a new ball on the market that fits my style, I would like to know what
> > it is.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> correction I have a storm (special agent)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

How about coming somewhat near ANSWERING the first responder's
questions?
All too vauge.......

T


  
Date: 18 Nov 2008 17:18:20
From: Darlene Block
Subject: Re: what ball do you recomend ?

<Twp1976@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:9710508a-fd93-4d95-a522-6cc2129300a3@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On 17, 1:55 pm, "Darlene Block" <tenpinhawk...@mchsi.com > wrote:
> It seems that you have new enough equipment to not need anything newer
> until you learn to bowl better.
>snipped>
> I do wonder why the pro-shop sold you such high end balls to someone who
> is early in their bowling career. You might want to see someone else for
> your next ball.
> Dar
>
> <spr272...@netzero.net> wrote
> On 11, 8:16 pm, spr272...@netzero.net wrote:

> > On 11, 7:49 pm, PromptJock <102151.3...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I use a handshake grip, I throw the ball about 12.5 mph, and I am a
> > > > low revolution bowler. also I toss the ball instead of droping it
> > > > near
> > > > the foul line. I stand left of center and prefer a medium hook. any
> > > > suggestion's ?
<snipped >
> > > My initial suggestions
> > > --------------------------------
> > > 1) Visit the Pro Shop where you bowl and have the proprietor observe
> > > you. If the proprietor is worth his/her salt, he/she will be able to
> > > recommend a new/used ball OR refit/redrill your existing ball if/as
> > > required.
> > > 2) GET COACHING LESSONS, only if you have your own ball and shoes! I
> > > type this because lessons are essentially useless if all you're using
> > > is House Balls and House (rental) Shoes because you need a FITTED ball
> > > and YOUR OWN SHOES to gain any real benefit.
>snipped>
>
> > > With that typed, it would be a disservice to recommend a ball because,
> > > IMO, you need lessons to help you stop TOSSING THE BALL. Once you can
> > > get the ball rolling out of your hand without it "going
> > > airborne" (which will translate to better control and more overall
> > > accuracy), you can then look at getting a new ball (if really
> > > needed :) ).
<snipped >
>
> > > I hope this helps a little bit...
>
> > many pro bowlers toss the ball. consistancy is the key to bowling, if
> > you can hit your mark then it does not matter how you get there. there
> > is such a huge selection of balls on the market, I was just wondering
> > if anyone with a similar style had a suggestion. I currently use a
> > hammer (black widdow) and a storm (double agent). i just started
> > bowling again after a year and a half away from the game. if there is
> > a new ball on the market that fits my style, I would like to know what
> > it is.- Hide quoted text -

>
> correction I have a storm (special agent)- Hide quoted text -


How about coming somewhat near ANSWERING the first responder's
questions?
All too vauge.......

T
T, we have been answering the original question. The bowler already has some
of the newest and best bowling balls out. He certainly does not need another
high end ball. In my opinion he has far too aggressive equipment and no idea
how to use it. A milder ball, even a used, several years old ball might be
the best thing to add to his arsenal as PJ suggested. That might be
something he can control and work with.
If he really wants to bowl better he should quit trying to buy strikes
in a box and learn how to bowl. His next step is not another ball which will
only copy what he already has, but GET SOME LESSONS. I hope that is not
vague.
Dar
PS, I snipped part of PJ and my responses to save time rereading this long
exchange.




 
Date: 16 Nov 2008 22:15:32
From:
Subject: Re: what ball do you recomend ?
On 11, 8:16=A0pm, spr272...@netzero.net wrote:
> On 11, 7:49=A0pm, PromptJock <102151.3...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > I use a handshake grip, I throw the ball about 12.5 mph, and I am a
> > > low revolution bowler. also I toss the ball instead of droping it nea=
r
> > > the foul line. I stand left of center and prefer a medium hook. any
> > > suggestion's ?
>
> > 1) How old are you? how much do you weigh (not a frivolous question:
> > body weight DIRECTLY determines how heavy a ball you should use!)? any
> > physical problems/limitations (i.e., back/knee/shoulder/arm/wrist
> > problems?)?
> > 2) Assuming you already have a ball, how heavy is it? what make/model
> > is it? how is it drilled (conventional or fingertip?)? what is the Pin/
> > CG position in relation to your fingers?
> > 3) How long have you been bowling?
> > 4) If you have a current USBC average, what is it?
>
> > My initial suggestions
> > --------------------------------
> > 1) Visit the Pro Shop where you bowl and have the proprietor observe
> > you. =A0If the proprietor is worth his/her salt, he/she will be able to
> > recommend a new/used ball OR refit/redrill your existing ball if/as
> > required.
> > 2) GET COACHING LESSONS, only if you have your own ball and shoes! I
> > type this because lessons are essentially useless if all you're using
> > is House Balls and House (rental) Shoes because you need a FITTED ball
> > and YOUR OWN SHOES to gain any real benefit. =A0As USBC certified
> > "Gold" (highest level!) coach Susie Minshew says, "You can't out-coach
> > a bad-fitting ball!" =A0This is why it's a MUST to have your own fitted
> > ball (and your own shoes). :)
>
> > With that typed, it would be a disservice to recommend a ball because,
> > IMO, you need lessons to help you stop TOSSING THE BALL. =A0Once you ca=
n
> > get the ball rolling out of your hand without it "going
> > airborne" (which will translate to better control and more overall
> > accuracy), you can then look at getting a new ball (if really
> > needed :) ).
>
> > I'm sorry I can't offer anything "meatier" because you didn't provide
> > more information AND I haven't personally met you and watched your
> > bowling.
>
> > I hope this helps a little bit...
>
> many pro bowlers toss the ball. consistancy is the key to bowling, if
> you can hit your mark then it does not matter how you get there. there
> is such a huge selection of balls on the market, I was just wondering
> if anyone with a similar style had a suggestion. I currently use a
> hammer (black widdow) and a storm (double agent). i just started
> bowling again after a year and a half away from the game. if there is
> a new ball on the market that fits my style, I would like to know what
> it is.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

correction I have a storm (special agent)


  
Date: 17 Nov 2008 18:55:34
From: Darlene Block
Subject: Re: what ball do you recomend ?
It seems that you have new enough equipment to not need anything newer
until you learn to bowl better. The money spent on lessons rather than a new
ball would be well spent. The fact that you think professional bowlers are
tossing the ball would indicate you can learn a lot. We may use the term
"toss the ball" but that certainly is not what we are doing. You can not
TOSS the ball the same every time. You have to be able execute whatever
release you use the same every time so that you know what the ball will do
as it goes down the lane.
You also have to read lane conditions so that you know where to "throw"
the ball and where to move to when the lanes change. There are many things
to learn that will help you use those very good bowling balls you already
have.
I do wonder why the pro-shop sold you such high end balls to someone who
is early in their bowling career. You might want to see someone else for
your next ball.
Dar

<spr272000@netzero.net > wrote
On 11, 8:16 pm, spr272...@netzero.net wrote:
> On 11, 7:49 pm, PromptJock <102151.3...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > I use a handshake grip, I throw the ball about 12.5 mph, and I am a
> > > low revolution bowler. also I toss the ball instead of droping it near
> > > the foul line. I stand left of center and prefer a medium hook. any
> > > suggestion's ?
>
> > 1) How old are you? how much do you weigh (not a frivolous question:
> > body weight DIRECTLY determines how heavy a ball you should use!)? any
> > physical problems/limitations (i.e., back/knee/shoulder/arm/wrist
> > problems?)?
> > 2) Assuming you already have a ball, how heavy is it? what make/model
> > is it? how is it drilled (conventional or fingertip?)? what is the Pin/
> > CG position in relation to your fingers?
> > 3) How long have you been bowling?
> > 4) If you have a current USBC average, what is it?
>
> > My initial suggestions
> > --------------------------------
> > 1) Visit the Pro Shop where you bowl and have the proprietor observe
> > you. If the proprietor is worth his/her salt, he/she will be able to
> > recommend a new/used ball OR refit/redrill your existing ball if/as
> > required.
> > 2) GET COACHING LESSONS, only if you have your own ball and shoes! I
> > type this because lessons are essentially useless if all you're using
> > is House Balls and House (rental) Shoes because you need a FITTED ball
> > and YOUR OWN SHOES to gain any real benefit. As USBC certified
> > "Gold" (highest level!) coach Susie Minshew says, "You can't out-coach
> > a bad-fitting ball!" This is why it's a MUST to have your own fitted
> > ball (and your own shoes). :)
>
> > With that typed, it would be a disservice to recommend a ball because,
> > IMO, you need lessons to help you stop TOSSING THE BALL. Once you can
> > get the ball rolling out of your hand without it "going
> > airborne" (which will translate to better control and more overall
> > accuracy), you can then look at getting a new ball (if really
> > needed :) ).
>
> > I'm sorry I can't offer anything "meatier" because you didn't provide
> > more information AND I haven't personally met you and watched your
> > bowling.
>
> > I hope this helps a little bit...
>
> many pro bowlers toss the ball. consistancy is the key to bowling, if
> you can hit your mark then it does not matter how you get there. there
> is such a huge selection of balls on the market, I was just wondering
> if anyone with a similar style had a suggestion. I currently use a
> hammer (black widdow) and a storm (double agent). i just started
> bowling again after a year and a half away from the game. if there is
> a new ball on the market that fits my style, I would like to know what
> it is.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

correction I have a storm (special agent)




 
Date: 11 Nov 2008 22:07:17
From: PromptJock
Subject: Re: what ball do you recomend ?
> many pro bowlers toss the ball. consistancy is the key to bowling, if
> you can hit your mark then it does not matter how you get there. there
> is such a huge selection of balls on the market, I was just wondering
> if anyone with a similar style had a suggestion. I currently use a
> hammer (black widdow) and a storm (double agent). i just started
> bowling again after a year and a half away from the game. if there is
> a new ball on the market that fits my style, I would like to know what
> it is

By "tosssing", are you referring to "lofting"? if so, then forgive me
for misunderstanding. Lofting is, indeed, a good technique but it
does require a VERY STRAIGHT armswing that doesn't "veer" in or out at
the release (resulting in "chicken-winging" and/or "pulling" the
ball)..

Since you're using a Widow (good ball!), I'm gonna assume it's at
least 15 pounds and fingertip drilled. Ditto for the Double Agent (I
have a "Special Agent" and Roto "Illusion").

As for "matching your style", I repeat the suggestion to visit your
center's Pro Shop and have the Proprietor observe you deliver your
ball. It's possible you may only need a DRILLING LAYOUT CHANGE to get
the "reaction" you desire. I also still recommend COACHING LESSONS,
especially if your average is 180 or below, to help you with your
release and targeting. If your average is ABOVE 180, coaching can
help you with your MENTAL GAME (i.e., focus, concentration), which
will translate into better targeting, etc. :)

Thank you for the added info and, again, please forgive me for any
misunderstanding. :)


 
Date: 11 Nov 2008 20:16:17
From:
Subject: Re: what ball do you recomend ?
On 11, 7:49=A0pm, PromptJock <102151.3...@compuserve.com > wrote:
> > I use a handshake grip, I throw the ball about 12.5 mph, and I am a
> > low revolution bowler. also I toss the ball instead of droping it near
> > the foul line. I stand left of center and prefer a medium hook. any
> > suggestion's ?
>
> 1) How old are you? how much do you weigh (not a frivolous question:
> body weight DIRECTLY determines how heavy a ball you should use!)? any
> physical problems/limitations (i.e., back/knee/shoulder/arm/wrist
> problems?)?
> 2) Assuming you already have a ball, how heavy is it? what make/model
> is it? how is it drilled (conventional or fingertip?)? what is the Pin/
> CG position in relation to your fingers?
> 3) How long have you been bowling?
> 4) If you have a current USBC average, what is it?
>
> My initial suggestions
> --------------------------------
> 1) Visit the Pro Shop where you bowl and have the proprietor observe
> you. =A0If the proprietor is worth his/her salt, he/she will be able to
> recommend a new/used ball OR refit/redrill your existing ball if/as
> required.
> 2) GET COACHING LESSONS, only if you have your own ball and shoes! I
> type this because lessons are essentially useless if all you're using
> is House Balls and House (rental) Shoes because you need a FITTED ball
> and YOUR OWN SHOES to gain any real benefit. =A0As USBC certified
> "Gold" (highest level!) coach Susie Minshew says, "You can't out-coach
> a bad-fitting ball!" =A0This is why it's a MUST to have your own fitted
> ball (and your own shoes). :)
>
> With that typed, it would be a disservice to recommend a ball because,
> IMO, you need lessons to help you stop TOSSING THE BALL. =A0Once you can
> get the ball rolling out of your hand without it "going
> airborne" (which will translate to better control and more overall
> accuracy), you can then look at getting a new ball (if really
> needed :) ).
>
> I'm sorry I can't offer anything "meatier" because you didn't provide
> more information AND I haven't personally met you and watched your
> bowling.
>
> I hope this helps a little bit...

many pro bowlers toss the ball. consistancy is the key to bowling, if
you can hit your mark then it does not matter how you get there. there
is such a huge selection of balls on the market, I was just wondering
if anyone with a similar style had a suggestion. I currently use a
hammer (black widdow) and a storm (double agent). i just started
bowling again after a year and a half away from the game. if there is
a new ball on the market that fits my style, I would like to know what
it is.


 
Date: 11 Nov 2008 19:49:39
From: PromptJock
Subject: Re: what ball do you recomend ?
> I use a handshake grip, I throw the ball about 12.5 mph, and I am a
> low revolution bowler. also I toss the ball instead of droping it near
> the foul line. I stand left of center and prefer a medium hook. any
> suggestion's ?

1) How old are you? how much do you weigh (not a frivolous question:
body weight DIRECTLY determines how heavy a ball you should use!)? any
physical problems/limitations (i.e., back/knee/shoulder/arm/wrist
problems?)?
2) Assuming you already have a ball, how heavy is it? what make/model
is it? how is it drilled (conventional or fingertip?)? what is the Pin/
CG position in relation to your fingers?
3) How long have you been bowling?
4) If you have a current USBC average, what is it?

My initial suggestions
--------------------------------
1) Visit the Pro Shop where you bowl and have the proprietor observe
you. If the proprietor is worth his/her salt, he/she will be able to
recommend a new/used ball OR refit/redrill your existing ball if/as
required.
2) GET COACHING LESSONS, only if you have your own ball and shoes! I
type this because lessons are essentially useless if all you're using
is House Balls and House (rental) Shoes because you need a FITTED ball
and YOUR OWN SHOES to gain any real benefit. As USBC certified
"Gold" (highest level!) coach Susie Minshew says, "You can't out-coach
a bad-fitting ball!" This is why it's a MUST to have your own fitted
ball (and your own shoes). :)

With that typed, it would be a disservice to recommend a ball because,
IMO, you need lessons to help you stop TOSSING THE BALL. Once you can
get the ball rolling out of your hand without it "going
airborne" (which will translate to better control and more overall
accuracy), you can then look at getting a new ball (if really
needed :) ).

I'm sorry I can't offer anything "meatier" because you didn't provide
more information AND I haven't personally met you and watched your
bowling.

I hope this helps a little bit...