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Date: 19 Feb 2005 01:05:38
From: Chuck Mularkey
Subject: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
hello,

You guys have probably read these already but today I stumbled upon
two great bowling threads online....one called "high tech balls" on
the pba.com message boards and "THE" Thread on the bowlersjournal.com
message boards. Reading these have actually changed my whole attitude
about bowling in one day!

What do you guys think of the things Brian Voss suggested in the high
tech balls thread? I mean, what if we could institute a national ball
rule and say everyone who wants to bowl must use a standardized tool?
We could call it "THE tool" and it would be a black shiny ball with no
markings or logos and you would not be able to alter it in any way
except to drill three finger holes, and it would be made of plastic or
rubber and have ye olde pancake weightblock. I mean, that would
instantly restore integrity, equality and fairness back to bowling.
The lanes could be maintained more easily, the oil patterns would hold
up better and the best bowlers would always win because the equipment
would be taken out of the equation. Then the three attributes of
bowling greatness would rule again....Accuracy, mental toughness, and
self-generated power/spin.

After reading those two threads today I feel mindf*cked about bowling.
I really feel like a gimp now bowling with my $220 hook
monster/cheater ball. I wish I could throw my particle equipment away
now, but I suck too much without it.

Chuck




 
Date: 02 Mar 2005 11:11:17
From: Jack B
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
Chuck,

Thanks for the suggestion regarding the articles. I read Voss's but not the
other. I assume it is along the same general train of thought. If so, the
suggested solution is way too simplistic. I have read threads in this forum
that discusses how bowlers can be shut out or the shot made very difficult
so scores are low and the skill level is raised. When ever there is a change
in one part of the sport a segment of that sport is effected adversely or
positively. The parity induced by the bowling balls along with lane oil
patterns has made the game more of a sport; not less. I don't by the
argument it is all ball. There are too many factors that effect the
integrity of bowling. It starts with the bowling center owners, leagues and
the players, the professionals and the bowling sanctioning bodies.

I think to be a good bowler you need to be somewhat althetic. To be a
professional it is a must today; dispite the Tarber brothers ( although Dave
is making efforts to get into shape .. good for him). But how many of us go
to league night and see the guys and gals smoking and drinking; eating
really bad food and their bodies show it. And the performances are dismal.
How is anyone ever going to perceive bowling as nothing more than a game
when you see that? Drunks in a bowling league are no different than on a
golf course. Obnoxious and silly. And this is one area the general public
gets it's perception of bowlings integrity! And maybe for the casual bowler
that is ok. The problem (if that is really what it is) in gaining integrity
is changing the perception of bowling as a sport rather than a game from the
general public level and the casual bowler.

When I golf it is a game; not a sport. When I bowl it is a sport and not a
game. The difference for me is the level of intensity and my understanding
of what it takes to bowl well. Just like in golf anyone can hit a ball or
roll a bowling ball when bowling. And just like bowling skill is required to
bowl well or hit a golf ball correctly and putt to the hole.

The integrity of bowling; the perception it is a sport rather than a game
has to do with the whole fabric of the industry. Internationally it is a
sport first. That is the perception outside the US. If anyone disputes that
chat with John Fantanni (sorry for the misspelling) sometime. Ryan has
posted over the years how hard the shot is in the Great Britian area. Read
some of his posts about scoring and the toughness of the shot. Also, ask him
how bowlers are treated by the center owners and the people at the counters.
Very few in the US will be able to relate to that!

Read some of the posts by lane men or center managers regarding lane setups.
If the integrity of bowling is a function of difficulty only, then that is
easy to resolve! This past weekend at the Seattle Masters Tournament; some
of the areas best were shut out by a tough lane pattern. Didn't hear anyone
mentioning integrity or how it was bringing out the best. Some, the next day
acknowledged how tired they were dealing with the tough shot. One even
mentioned if you weren't young or in good shape you were not going to
survive the lanes. Even with todays bowling balls it still takes skill. So I
ask again is it really the only bowling balls?

Brian Voss is a great voice of insite and understanding of bowling. His
suggestion does not really change anything. There always going to be those
that figure it out better than others. Does changing the ball design change
the perceptions and infuse integrity in the sport in the US?

Jack B
"Chuck Mularkey" <chuck@mularkey.com > wrote in message
news:ctjd11pl8968bhs59rf2fkmaicrmhg9piv@4ax.com...
> hello,
>
> You guys have probably read these already but today I stumbled upon
> two great bowling threads online....one called "high tech balls" on
> the pba.com message boards and "THE" Thread on the bowlersjournal.com
> message boards. Reading these have actually changed my whole attitude
> about bowling in one day!
>
> What do you guys think of the things Brian Voss suggested in the high
> tech balls thread? I mean, what if we could institute a national ball
> rule and say everyone who wants to bowl must use a standardized tool?
> We could call it "THE tool" and it would be a black shiny ball with no
> markings or logos and you would not be able to alter it in any way
> except to drill three finger holes, and it would be made of plastic or
> rubber and have ye olde pancake weightblock. I mean, that would
> instantly restore integrity, equality and fairness back to bowling.
> The lanes could be maintained more easily, the oil patterns would hold
> up better and the best bowlers would always win because the equipment
> would be taken out of the equation. Then the three attributes of
> bowling greatness would rule again....Accuracy, mental toughness, and
> self-generated power/spin.
>
> After reading those two threads today I feel mindf*cked about bowling.
> I really feel like a gimp now bowling with my $220 hook
> monster/cheater ball. I wish I could throw my particle equipment away
> now, but I suck too much without it.
>
> Chuck




 
Date:
From:
Subject:


 
Date: 19 Feb 2005 18:18:33
From: Ryan Press \(NI\)
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
Nice post chuck... I'l have to take a look at those threads... I have to
agree entirely with that idea, well apart from the bit about black balls
with no engravings and colour :P

Ryan




"Chuck Mularkey" <chuck@mularkey.com > wrote in message
news:ctjd11pl8968bhs59rf2fkmaicrmhg9piv@4ax.com...
> hello,
>
> You guys have probably read these already but today I stumbled upon
> two great bowling threads online....one called "high tech balls" on
> the pba.com message boards and "THE" Thread on the bowlersjournal.com
> message boards. Reading these have actually changed my whole attitude
> about bowling in one day!
>
> What do you guys think of the things Brian Voss suggested in the high
> tech balls thread? I mean, what if we could institute a national ball
> rule and say everyone who wants to bowl must use a standardized tool?
> We could call it "THE tool" and it would be a black shiny ball with no
> markings or logos and you would not be able to alter it in any way
> except to drill three finger holes, and it would be made of plastic or
> rubber and have ye olde pancake weightblock. I mean, that would
> instantly restore integrity, equality and fairness back to bowling.
> The lanes could be maintained more easily, the oil patterns would hold
> up better and the best bowlers would always win because the equipment
> would be taken out of the equation. Then the three attributes of
> bowling greatness would rule again....Accuracy, mental toughness, and
> self-generated power/spin.
>
> After reading those two threads today I feel mindf*cked about bowling.
> I really feel like a gimp now bowling with my $220 hook
> monster/cheater ball. I wish I could throw my particle equipment away
> now, but I suck too much without it.
>
> Chuck




  
Date: 21 Feb 2005 21:47:09
From: Chuck Mularkey
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:18:33 GMT, "Ryan Press \(NI\)"
<juan-carlos.lupino@talk21.com > wrote:

>Nice post chuck... I'l have to take a look at those threads... I have to
>agree entirely with that idea, well apart from the bit about black balls
>with no engravings and colour :P
>
>Ryan

Yeah it would be awful hard to distinguish your ball from all the
others on the rack if the restrictions on "THE Tool" were that
spartan. :)

This Sunday at my 3-man, 90% handicap, 7 point system league we bowled
a double shift to make up for a snow day. During the first shift I
used my 400-grit scotch-brited Particle ball to bowl 268-208-214 for a
690 series, my highest of the season. I would like to say it was "all
in the wrist" but I know now that this hook monster did most of the
work and carried a lot of sh*t that a normal ball would not.

For the second shift I started off with the hook monster ball but it
kept crossing over and left two ugly splits at the beginning of the
first game. The lanes were obviously scorched, beat up, etc (after
only 3 games!!), between the 1st and 2nd arrow where I normally throw
a down and in shot. I decided to be brave, put away the hook monster
ball and took out my trusty white dot spare ball. I moved my right
foot to two boards right of the first dot and threw a nice slow down
and in shot. To my surprise the white dot actually over-hooked and
went through the nose. I moved about 4 boards left and bowled a
172-172-204 for a 548 series all with the white dot. I noticed
something during that series, the white dot did not pull any punches
on me, it struck hard when I through it well and accurately, and it
left a 10 pin or worse (a couple of 8-10's) when I missed or fluffed
it. Needless to say, our team got beat 5 to 2 mostly by a 148 average
bowler with a Morich Mayhem (that carried all manner of hits) who
bowled a career high 630 series against us and took full advantage of
the 90% team average handicap. I don't care that we lost but I'll tell
you, I was more proud of that 548 series with the white dot than the
690 with the "cheater" ball.

The moral is, I'm going to ebay my particle equipment, get a
reasonably priced resin ball (like a $87 BVP nemesis) that doesn't
totally chew up the oil pattern and the lanes and keep it above a 600
grit sanded finish. I'm going to carry a modest 2-ball bag and it will
contain that resin ball and a white dot, end of story. Whatever
average I can achieve with these 2 tools I will be happy with and try
to improve my physical, mental skills, and adaptability instead of
buying the next $220 hook monster ball to make me an out-of-the-box
200 average bowler. Sorry for going on and on but I had to make a
statement.

Chuck


   
Date: 22 Feb 2005 18:38:35
From: Ryan Press \(NI\)
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
I cant imagin playing with anything with a 400 surface :-

    
Date: 23 Feb 2005 20:55:44
From: Chuck Mularkey
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 18:38:35 GMT, "Ryan Press \(NI\)"
<juan-carlos.lupino@talk21.com > wrote:

>I cant imagin playing with anything with a 400 surface :-


     
Date: 25 Feb 2005 01:35:02
From: Ryan Press \(NI\)
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
LOL no offence was intended! :-p

It's partly due to the on-the-whole much drier conditions we have here... if
it aint polished it dont get chucked! :-P

Speaking of which.. my new RotoGrip RS1 is sitting behind me saying
"driiiiil meeeeee.... DRIIIIIILLLLL MEEEEEE..." :-P

Ryan



"Chuck Mularkey" <chuck@mularkey.com > wrote in message
news:ancq115fi9f61beuj23huejog42i8hunsv@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 18:38:35 GMT, "Ryan Press \(NI\)"
> <juan-carlos.lupino@talk21.com> wrote:
>
> >I cant imagin playing with anything with a 400 surface :-


 
Date: 19 Feb 2005 02:23:44
From: twobirds
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
Chuck Mularkey wrote:
> hello,
>
> You guys have probably read these already but today I stumbled upon
> two great bowling threads online....one called "high tech balls" on
> the pba.com message boards and "THE" Thread on the bowlersjournal.com
> message boards. Reading these have actually changed my whole attitude
> about bowling in one day!
>
> What do you guys think of the things Brian Voss suggested in the high
> tech balls thread?

I just watched a re-run on ESPN of last weeks PBA matches. Only four 200+
games were televised, and two of those were the final match. Some of the
best pros around competed last week and when that cheetah oil pattern broke
down, they left ten pins, splits, and buckets... I saw several open frames
from guys who just never leave open frames. These guys have the best
equipment and the most knowledge of how to use it... and the lanes defeated
them anyway. I think I saw at least a couple of gutterballs in the
semi-finals... In the final, Amleto Monecelli had a 7-10 split and still
won.

If lane conditions can still humble a field of players of the calibre that
participated - while some great number of them have access to the newest
technology in equipment... well, what really is the equalizer? Equipment?
The lane-man? - I say neither one.

Take your average league bowler and put a few hundred spectators behind him;
throw some hot lights above him; get several camera-men around him; have a
couple of announcers critiquing his game within his earshot; and tell him
that a couple of million people are watching and listening to it all. I
don't think that his equipment is what will win him the next match. I don't
think that the lane conditions will be as big a factor as it might seem they
should. - The fact of the matter is that anyone with the mental and
emotional ability to handle all that mess I just listed and who can still
concentrate on knocking down pins has a greater advantage than the guy with
every ball ever made.





  
Date: 20 Feb 2005 15:33:49
From: D K
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
twobirds wrote:

>
> Take your average league bowler and put a few hundred spectators behind him;
> throw some hot lights above him; get several camera-men around him; have a
> couple of announcers critiquing his game within his earshot; and tell him
> that a couple of million people are watching and listening to it all.

The announcers are within earshot of the competitors? I had no idea. That would
definitely be aggravating.
--
"People don't refuse money. It's what
separates us from the animals." -Sienfeld




  
Date: 19 Feb 2005 13:40:43
From: Jeff Rife
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
twobirds (notareal@eaddy.com) wrote in alt.sport.bowling:
> I just watched a re-run on ESPN of last weeks PBA matches. Only four 200+
> games were televised, and two of those were the final match. Some of the
> best pros around competed last week and when that cheetah oil pattern broke
> down, they left ten pins, splits, and buckets... I saw several open frames
> from guys who just never leave open frames. These guys have the best
> equipment and the most knowledge of how to use it... and the lanes defeated
> them anyway. I think I saw at least a couple of gutterballs in the
> semi-finals... In the final, Amleto Monecelli had a 7-10 split and still
> won.

That was a pocket 7-10, though.

It just proves that matching your game (ball, speed, revs, angle, etc.) to
the lanes is what works. Monacelli was the only one who was putting a lot
of revs on the ball and swinging it, which is what those touchy lanes
required, but you still had to be extremely accurate. A normal "grip it and
rip it" bowler might have played the same line, but would have had 3-4
washouts per game.

It also proves to me that lane conditions *can* bring the skill back to the
game. I have no problem shooting on a shot where I only strike 3-4 times
per game instead of 6-8 as long as everybody else I'm competing against
has the same conditions.

--
Jeff Rife


 
Date: 19 Feb 2005 02:06:51
From: Deeve
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
I think we have the same problem that we have with Fossil fuels.

The manufacturers of said products will never allow it to happen.
Alternative fuel cars have existed for while. A better solution for sure.
Buried. Why? because the fossil fuel companies buy it out and bury it.

The ball manufacturers would never allow such a rule to be implemented. They
make too much money off Joe Bowler.

The reality of it is that it would be a great idea. I would get behind it.
Problem is, does joe bowler really want to use a plastic ball that lowers
his average 50 pins?

I think not.

The solution in my opinion is what happens in golf. womens tees, mens tees,
pro tees.

womens tees (or the equivilant, beginner balls) mens tees (lower flare/lower
hitting powered balls) pro tees (plastic pancake weight blocks). Just to be
clear I mean no disrespect to our female bowlers. Women can bowl just as
welll as the men IMO.

Conditions are really not that applicable because they are dynamic. Balls
are static. They will always be the same. Too much oil makes the lane break
down. Bowl 50 games with a plastic ball and it is still the same.

On the flip side though is the fact that the game has become harder in that
instead of technique and skill, it has now become a game of reading
conditions and adjustment. I have had a lot of problems adjusting to
changing conditions. I am dyslexic when it comes to reading lanes :)

But anyways, this is just the ramblings of an infrequent poster and often
frequent reader.

BTW, I did read almost all of BV's ball thread and all of the Hardwick
thread. Good stuff. Makes me really realise that I am not that great of a
bowler compared to the Pro's. That combined with having seen them in
Fairlawn. I have a whole new respect for them.



"Chuck Mularkey" <chuck@mularkey.com > wrote in message
news:ctjd11pl8968bhs59rf2fkmaicrmhg9piv@4ax.com...
> hello,
>
> You guys have probably read these already but today I stumbled upon
> two great bowling threads online....one called "high tech balls" on
> the pba.com message boards and "THE" Thread on the bowlersjournal.com
> message boards. Reading these have actually changed my whole attitude
> about bowling in one day!
>
> What do you guys think of the things Brian Voss suggested in the high
> tech balls thread? I mean, what if we could institute a national ball
> rule and say everyone who wants to bowl must use a standardized tool?
> We could call it "THE tool" and it would be a black shiny ball with no
> markings or logos and you would not be able to alter it in any way
> except to drill three finger holes, and it would be made of plastic or
> rubber and have ye olde pancake weightblock. I mean, that would
> instantly restore integrity, equality and fairness back to bowling.
> The lanes could be maintained more easily, the oil patterns would hold
> up better and the best bowlers would always win because the equipment
> would be taken out of the equation. Then the three attributes of
> bowling greatness would rule again....Accuracy, mental toughness, and
> self-generated power/spin.
>
> After reading those two threads today I feel mindf*cked about bowling.
> I really feel like a gimp now bowling with my $220 hook
> monster/cheater ball. I wish I could throw my particle equipment away
> now, but I suck too much without it.
>
> Chuck
>




  
Date: 19 Feb 2005 13:34:33
From: Jeff Rife
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
Deeve (stab*master_arson13@hot*mail.com) wrote in alt.sport.bowling:
> I think we have the same problem that we have with Fossil fuels.
>
> The manufacturers of said products will never allow it to happen.
> Alternative fuel cars have existed for while. A better solution for sure.
> Buried. Why? because the fossil fuel companies buy it out and bury it.

No, it's because consumers would be up in arms if they had to pay $0.50
per mile for fuel.

Although some existing "alternative fuels" might be a "better solution"
for the environment, they all cost a lot more than gasoline. On the other
hand, ethanol from corn has so many strikes against it, yet people still
tout it as "better":

- it can't be used as the sole fuel
- it gives lower power per gallon when burned
- it isn't enviromentally friendly because it takes over 1/2 gallon of
petroleum products to produce one gallon of ethanol
- it costs more per gallon, at least without subsidies

--
Jeff Rife


   
Date: 20 Feb 2005 21:04:08
From: Deeve
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"

Jeff.

Interesting. Not knowing enough about it, I can't say what is what with
regard to this.

But what about hydrogen fuel cell?



"Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net > wrote in message
news:MPG.1c8150c3eb7b6f3d989b9f@news.nabs.net...
> No, it's because consumers would be up in arms if they had to pay $0.50
> per mile for fuel.
>
> Although some existing "alternative fuels" might be a "better solution"
> for the environment, they all cost a lot more than gasoline. On the other
> hand, ethanol from corn has so many strikes against it, yet people still
> tout it as "better":




    
Date: 20 Feb 2005 23:42:08
From: Jeff Rife
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
Deeve (stab*master_arson13@hot*mail.com) wrote in alt.sport.bowling:
> Interesting. Not knowing enough about it, I can't say what is what with
> regard to this.
>
> But what about hydrogen fuel cell?

Excellent environmentally, but low capacity (today) and expensive.

Also, hydrogen is *very* expensive (mostly because of transportation and
safety costs for the large quantities that would be sent to "gas stations").

The hybrid gasoline/electrics (Toyota Prius, Honda Insight) are the best
bet for today. If the technology expands enough to other types of vehicles
(SUVs, pickups, and minivans) without too much loss of functionality of those
vehicles (towing power, cargo space, etc.), it would be huge. Jumping a
15mpg SUV to even 30mpg would be a huge win. Emissions would be cut in
half, demand for gasoline would reduce thus lowering prices, less need to
fight wars for oil, etc.

--
Jeff Rife


     
Date: 21 Feb 2005 00:08:57
From: Deeve
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
Heheh. Sounds like you have done a bunch of research into this.

I have an even better sulution. Everyone ride motorcycles. :)

Anyways, I think we outta end this before someone gets mad cause we are so
off topic.



"Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net > wrote in message
news:MPG.1c8330abccd90cf1989bac@news.nabs.net...
> Deeve (stab*master_arson13@hot*mail.com) wrote in alt.sport.bowling:
> > Interesting. Not knowing enough about it, I can't say what is what with
> > regard to this.
> >
> > But what about hydrogen fuel cell?
>
> Excellent environmentally, but low capacity (today) and expensive.
>
> Also, hydrogen is *very* expensive (mostly because of transportation and
> safety costs for the large quantities that would be sent to "gas
stations").
>
> The hybrid gasoline/electrics (Toyota Prius, Honda Insight) are the best
> bet for today. If the technology expands enough to other types of
vehicles
> (SUVs, pickups, and minivans) without too much loss of functionality of
those
> vehicles (towing power, cargo space, etc.), it would be huge. Jumping a
> 15mpg SUV to even 30mpg would be a huge win. Emissions would be cut in
> half, demand for gasoline would reduce thus lowering prices, less need to
> fight wars for oil, etc.
>
> --
> Jeff Rife


      
Date: 21 Feb 2005 00:32:53
From: Jeff Rife
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
Deeve (stab*master_arson13@hot*mail.com) wrote in alt.sport.bowling:
> Heheh. Sounds like you have done a bunch of research into this.
>
> I have an even better sulution. Everyone ride motorcycles. :)
>
> Anyways, I think we outta end this before someone gets mad cause we are so
> off topic.

OK, so here's something back on topic that would keep ball companies happy:

USBC could require any sanctioned league to change the oil pattern every
week, and never use the same one twice during a single USBC sanctioning year.
This would mean that bowlers with skill enough to know what their balls
actually do and how to make them do different things would tend to score the
best.

Yeah, it's got some bugs to the plan, but it's as likely to happen as
outlawing everything but hard rubber and plastic. Of course, I'm one of
those guys who wouldn't mind seeing a sport pattern all the time in every
one of my leagues.

--
Jeff Rife


       
Date: 21 Feb 2005 18:55:52
From: Deeve
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
Jeff

They already do this in my league. Problem is that it isnt intentional :)

Hell, I am lucky if they can put the same pattern on both lanes! Its
showing in my average too. I am 186 right now. I have been 199+ for the last
6 years except one year of 191 and one 194.

Mind you, I did shoot a 700 last week so I am pretty happy bout that.

I am definitly of the mindset that the conditions are definitly a way to get
the scores back down. I have been bowling at 3 different houses for the last
couple of months. At one of them I am averaging about 215 (its practice one
though) 210 at another (that was tournaments and practice) and 186 at my
league in the 3rd.

The first 2 are real easy shots and the first one is stupidly easy. I almost
don't want to practice there cause I find myself just standing left and
throwing right. The 3rd house doesnt take care of their lanes. Their
dressing machine is broken (from what I have heard) and they wont fix it.
The backends are inconsistant lane to lane. One lane will hook hard, the
other wont finish. Its definitly been a learning experience for me this
year. Its much worse than it was last year and I thought last year was
tough.

Funny thing though. I am enjoying it in a sick way. I can definitly tell you
that it has made me a better bowler. Resin on walls is what I have been bred
on. Its a real humbling eye opener. And this is just a fun mixed league.
high average in the league is 202. I bowled juniors with this guy 20-25
years ago. He is a really good bowler. He shot a 279 at a tournament in the
early 80's when he was about 15 or so. He averages 215 any other time.

Anyways, I am talking too much




"Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net > wrote in message
news:MPG.1c833c8d7764b7ad989bae@news.nabs.net...
> OK, so here's something back on topic that would keep ball companies
happy:
>
> USBC could require any sanctioned league to change the oil pattern every
> week, and never use the same one twice during a single USBC sanctioning
year.
> This would mean that bowlers with skill enough to know what their balls
> actually do and how to make them do different things would tend to score
the
> best.
>
> Yeah, it's got some bugs to the plan, but it's as likely to happen as
> outlawing everything but hard rubber and plastic. Of course, I'm one of
> those guys who wouldn't mind seeing a sport pattern all the time in every
> one of my leagues.
>
> --
> Jeff Rife


       
Date: 21 Feb 2005 14:50:17
From: John O
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
> Yeah, it's got some bugs to the plan, but it's as likely to happen as
> outlawing everything but hard rubber and plastic. Of course, I'm one of
> those guys who wouldn't mind seeing a sport pattern all the time in every
> one of my leagues.

Did you see the PBA show? I think they played on a 40-foot flat pattern. As
in, truly flat. They all had trouble, and there were even a couple crossover
strikes.

-John O




        
Date: 21 Feb 2005 10:26:05
From: mhood
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
John O wrote:

>>Yeah, it's got some bugs to the plan, but it's as likely to happen as
>>outlawing everything but hard rubber and plastic. Of course, I'm one of
>>those guys who wouldn't mind seeing a sport pattern all the time in every
>>one of my leagues.
>>
>>
>
>Did you see the PBA show? I think they played on a 40-foot flat pattern. As
>in, truly flat. They all had trouble, and there were even a couple crossover
>strikes.
>
>-John O
>
>
>
>
I understand a tough shot, but do you think average Joe viewer does? I
can't help but wonder what they think when they see WRW shoot the same
179 they shot last night at Cosmic Bowling. Not too sure 179s are as
good for the ratings as 300s and 279s.

mhood


         
Date: 21 Feb 2005 18:58:20
From: Tony R Smith
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
You are right, Mark... that is the point... The lane conditions that
have been put out over the last 15-20 years, not the bowling balls, have
made the game way to easy. Easy = non competitive or non challenging =
non sport. A perfect game should be more difficult than a hole in one...
a hole in one is "one" perfectly executed shot... a perfect game is 12
perfectly executed shots... but if you figured out the number of holes
in one per rounds played (should be per par 3s of which there are more
than one per round) versus the number of perfect games per games played,
there would be no comparison. It wasn't always that way. When I was a
kid, you might see one or two 300 games in an entire season in all the
bowling lanes in a county... even fewer if you go back to when some of
the old farts here were kids... and there were a whole lot more people
bowling back then than now. When I was a kid I marveled at bowlers that
could regularly score 200+ and average "nearly" 200... Those guys were
gods! These days, with a little bit of education, a 190+ average is
easily obtainable by anyone that puts forth the effort to learn how to
take advantage of the conditions and converts their spares... and if you
are in that group, honor scores will come too. The days of accuracy in
the extreme are gone.

mhood wrote:
> John O wrote:
>
>>> Yeah, it's got some bugs to the plan, but it's as likely to happen as
>>> outlawing everything but hard rubber and plastic. Of course, I'm one of
>>> those guys who wouldn't mind seeing a sport pattern all the time in
>>> every
>>> one of my leagues.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Did you see the PBA show? I think they played on a 40-foot flat
>> pattern. As in, truly flat. They all had trouble, and there were even
>> a couple crossover strikes.
>>
>> -John O
>>
>>
>>
> I understand a tough shot, but do you think average Joe viewer does? I
> can't help but wonder what they think when they see WRW shoot the same
> 179 they shot last night at Cosmic Bowling. Not too sure 179s are as
> good for the ratings as 300s and 279s.
>
> mhood


         
Date: 21 Feb 2005 18:06:39
From: John O
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
----POSSIBLE SPOILER----

>>
> I understand a tough shot, but do you think average Joe viewer does? I
> can't help but wonder what they think when they see WRW shoot the same 179
> they shot last night at Cosmic Bowling. Not too sure 179s are as good for
> the ratings as 300s and 279s.

Probably true. Randy explained the low strike percentage, but they didn't
put this into context, or compare it to the highest X% on tour, and that
pattern. Or, with this pattern, why WRW was using a release/line we never
see him use on TV. Wouldn't the entire lane be available for the show?
Instead, he made it sound like WRW was choking with #41 on the line.

-John O




          
Date: 21 Feb 2005 15:04:40
From: Jeff Rife
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
John O (johno@#no^spam&heathkit.com) wrote in alt.sport.bowling:
> Probably true. Randy explained the low strike percentage, but they didn't
> put this into context, or compare it to the highest X% on tour, and that
> pattern.

What they really need to do is to show what non-pros did in the early
rounds of the tournament. If they don't want to look like they are
trying to embarass people, they can just not use any names. But, showing
that amateurs who average 220 or 230 in league managed to average 190 (or
less) in qualifying would make the point that the TV finalists averaging
210-215 are *great* bowlers.

--
Jeff Rife


           
Date: 21 Feb 2005 22:12:18
From: John O
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
>But, showing
> that amateurs who average 220 or 230 in league

Yeah, that's it. Plus, what about the house rats from the host center? "I
average 227 on Wednesday nights, but on the pro condition I averaged 174."
I'd really love to hear about that. :-)

-John O




            
Date: 21 Feb 2005 23:41:30
From: Smokey
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
> >But, showing
> > that amateurs who average 220 or 230 in league
>
> Yeah, that's it. Plus, what about the house rats from the host center? "I
> average 227 on Wednesday nights, but on the pro condition I averaged 174."
> I'd really love to hear about that. :-)

And you NEVER WILL because those "house rats":

1) are probably too CHICKEN to try a "pro quality" shot
2) they have TOO MUCH PRIDE. :)




             
Date: 22 Feb 2005 14:35:59
From: Jeff Rife
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
Smokey (102151.3223@compuserve.com) wrote in alt.sport.bowling:
> And you NEVER WILL because those "house rats":
>
> 1) are probably too CHICKEN to try a "pro quality" shot

The one thing stopping me from things like the US Open is that I really
can't afford to waste the entry fee. It was within easy driving distance
for me, but I know I have no hope over the pros, but I'd love to compete
on those conditions. Having the Pro/Am being the same shot would have
gotten me there in a second, because that's a lot less money and I'd have
a shot at winning.

--
Jeff Rife


              
Date: 22 Feb 2005 20:44:07
From: Tony R Smith
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
I agree... Why "don't" they hold the Pro/Am on the tournament
conditions? If you ask me, it not only would provide a good learning
experience but would also give the Amatuers a new found respect for the
skill level of the Pros. Just my 2.

Jeff Rife wrote:

>Smokey (102151.3223@compuserve.com) wrote in alt.sport.bowling:
>
>
>>And you NEVER WILL because those "house rats":
>>
>> 1) are probably too CHICKEN to try a "pro quality" shot
>>
>>
>
>The one thing stopping me from things like the US Open is that I really
>can't afford to waste the entry fee. It was within easy driving distance
>for me, but I know I have no hope over the pros, but I'd love to compete
>on those conditions. Having the Pro/Am being the same shot would have
>gotten me there in a second, because that's a lot less money and I'd have
>a shot at winning.
>
>
>


               
Date: 22 Feb 2005 17:49:55
From: Lisa
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
"Tony R Smith" <tonyrsmith@myrealbox.com > wrote in message
news:rQMSd.8232$VD5.1099@twister.socal.rr.com...
> I agree... Why "don't" they hold the Pro/Am on the tournament
> conditions? If you ask me, it not only would provide a good learning
> experience but would also give the Amatuers a new found respect for the
> skill level of the Pros. Just my 2.

The pro-ams here have the house shot during the weekend but if you want to
bowl on the PBA shot with the pros that pro-am is held during the week.

I seem to be bowling the ABC when the pros come to town lately... if our
dates ever change I'd love to get a chance to bowl on a PBA pattern for
giggles.




                
Date: 23 Feb 2005 00:03:30
From: Tony R Smith
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
Look who's back on the group... not through AOHell or Google Groups
either! :-P

Lisa wrote:

>"Tony R Smith" <tonyrsmith@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
>news:rQMSd.8232$VD5.1099@twister.socal.rr.com...
>
>
>>I agree... Why "don't" they hold the Pro/Am on the tournament
>>conditions? If you ask me, it not only would provide a good learning
>>experience but would also give the Amatuers a new found respect for the
>>skill level of the Pros. Just my 2.
>>
>>
>
>The pro-ams here have the house shot during the weekend but if you want to
>bowl on the PBA shot with the pros that pro-am is held during the week.
>
>I seem to be bowling the ABC when the pros come to town lately... if our
>dates ever change I'd love to get a chance to bowl on a PBA pattern for
>giggles.
>
>
>
>


                 
Date: 22 Feb 2005 20:42:06
From: Lisa
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
"Tony R Smith" <tonyrsmith@myrealbox.com > wrote in message
news:mLPSd.8259$VD5.7987@twister.socal.rr.com...
> Look who's back on the group... not through AOHell or Google Groups
> either! :-P

Where would I be without your help?? :)

Lisa




             
Date: 22 Feb 2005 12:55:18
From: John O
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
>> >But, showing
>> > that amateurs who average 220 or 230 in league
>>
>> Yeah, that's it. Plus, what about the house rats from the host center? "I
>> average 227 on Wednesday nights, but on the pro condition I averaged
>> 174."
>> I'd really love to hear about that. :-)
>
> And you NEVER WILL because those "house rats":
>
> 1) are probably too CHICKEN to try a "pro quality" shot
> 2) they have TOO MUCH PRIDE. :)
>

All it takes is "the proper incentive." :-)

-John O




           
Date: 21 Feb 2005 22:11:56
From: Tony R Smith
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
On a flat shot like the one they bowled on a 190 average would be truly
outstanding! It is SO hard to avoid splits, washouts, and multi-pins
spare shots when you miss by a single board on a flat shot. The lower
spare conversion percentage on the flat conditions is what kills the
scores. If you had single pin spares to shoot at it wouldn't be nearly
as difficult. Averaging 210 on a flat shot "does" qualify you as a
"bowling god".

Jeff Rife wrote:
> John O (johno@#no^spam&heathkit.com) wrote in alt.sport.bowling:
>
>>Probably true. Randy explained the low strike percentage, but they didn't
>>put this into context, or compare it to the highest X% on tour, and that
>>pattern.
>
>
> What they really need to do is to show what non-pros did in the early
> rounds of the tournament. If they don't want to look like they are
> trying to embarass people, they can just not use any names. But, showing
> that amateurs who average 220 or 230 in league managed to average 190 (or
> less) in qualifying would make the point that the TV finalists averaging
> 210-215 are *great* bowlers.
>


            
Date: 21 Feb 2005 18:51:37
From: Jeff Rife
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
Tony R Smith (tonyrsmith@myrealbox.com) wrote in alt.sport.bowling:
> On a flat shot like the one they bowled on a 190 average would be truly
> outstanding!

That's good to hear.

The non-sanctioned "sport shot" league I bowled in this summer used a flat
shot because it was easy for them to program. For 48 games, I averaged
187.1 One night a managed a 219.2 average for the four-game set. Of course,
there was the week I managed only a 165.3 average.

> It is SO hard to avoid splits, washouts, and multi-pins
> spare shots when you miss by a single board on a flat shot. The lower
> spare conversion percentage on the flat conditions is what kills the
> scores.

Any "hook spares" (double wood, etc.) are nasty on that shot. I had to
learn to throw straight at the 3-6-10 (or 3-10) instead of hooking. My
split-leave percentage was the same as normal though (6%). Unfortunately,
the software doesn't track washouts directly, and I'm too lazy to figure it
out right now.

> If you had single pin spares to shoot at it wouldn't be nearly
> as difficult.

I still missed too many single pins in that league (only 82% success when
I'm normally over 90%).

--
Jeff Rife


        
Date: 21 Feb 2005 08:16:27
From: Smokey
Subject: Re: two great threads, "THE tool", and "ye olde pancake weightblock"
> Did you see the PBA show? I think they played on a 40-foot flat pattern.
As
> in, truly flat. They all had trouble, and there were even a couple
crossover
> strikes.

You are correct. In fact, here's what the beastie looked like:
http://www.pba.com/laneconditions/default.asp?ID=16

Personally, I'd LOVE to practice (if not actually compete) on this pattern
(or something similar)...

I know about Sport Bowling leagues, but I don't know of any in the area I
live....