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Date: 19 Oct 2007 13:27:26
From: PromptJock
Subject: "Twister" pins
At the request of a center owner (we have a good business
relationship), I "beat up" on some "Twister" pins he's trying for a
month.

My impression of them are generally FAVORABLE. Here's my
observations:

1. True, they don't "sound" like normal pins, but neither do synthetic
lane surfaces "sound like" wood surfaces. This will "turn off" many
bowlers until they get used to them.
2. They don't "bounce around" like regular pins - they just "fall
down" backwards like dominoes. This action, in my opinion, produces
more "explosive" strikes while watching the pins "drive" backwards
into the pit.
3. OTOH, they really bounce off balls and kickbacks!
4. They seem to "slide" more on the pin deck when horizontal, rather
than just "lay down and play dead". This produces more "traveler,
etc." action which is quite impressive.
5. When hit by rolling "travelers", they fall down easier than regular
pins, IMHO.
6. PLASTIC balls seem to carry better than reactives, although "direct
nose" shots by either WILL produce more splits.
7. "Light" pocket hits WILL leave single or dual-pin spares rather
than carry (see 2. above).

I suppose I can sum-up my observations thusly: bowling with "Twisters"
is not unlike dealing with a "Sport" oiling - you need greater
accuracy and speed control to ensure you get carry.

I look forward to reading what others' experiences are. :)





 
Date: 02 Nov 2007 17:35:28
From:
Subject: Re: "Twister" pins
On 1, 4:54 am, 6ballman <6bal...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> You aren't likely to see this clown there anytime soon either.
>

LOL We should have a TI poker party in ABQ.




 
Date: 31 Oct 2007 17:50:16
From:
Subject: Re: "Twister" pins
On Oct 31, 5:50 pm, 6ballman <6bal...@yahoo.com > wrote:

> Still a "professional" poker player?

I've yet to see any of you clowns on ESPN.

Glad you are OK Tony. Looked bad on TV but I don't think folks can
really appreciate wild fires until they've lived in So Cal and seen
the damage.

Mark



  
Date: 01 Nov 2007 04:54:24
From: 6ballman
Subject: Re: "Twister" pins
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You aren't likely to see this clown there anytime soon either. I am not
bankrolled for the type of tournament that they air.
I am strictly a low roller. Happy to take enough cash off the locals to
fund my trips.

2bowlers@gmail.com wrote:
> On Oct 31, 5:50 pm, 6ballman <6bal...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Still a "professional" poker player?
>>
>
> I've yet to see any of you clowns on ESPN.
>
> Glad you are OK Tony. Looked bad on TV but I don't think folks can
> really appreciate wild fires until they've lived in So Cal and seen
> the damage.
>
> Mark
>
>

--

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to
persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
--Carl Sagan


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<head >
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type" >
<title ></title>
</head >
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" >
You aren't likely to see this clown there anytime soon either. I am not
bankrolled for the type of tournament that they air. <br >
I am strictly a low roller. Happy to take enough cash off the locals to
fund my trips.<br >
<br >
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:2bowlers@gmail.com" >2bowlers@gmail.com</a> wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:1193878216.493276.105910@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com"
type="cite" >
<pre wrap="" >On Oct 31, 5:50 pm, 6ballman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:6bal...@yahoo.com"><6bal...@yahoo.com></a> wrote:

</pre >
<blockquote type="cite" >
<pre wrap="" >Still a "professional" poker player?
</pre >
</blockquote >
<pre wrap="" ><!---->
I've yet to see any of you clowns on ESPN.

Glad you are OK Tony. Looked bad on TV but I don't think folks can
really appreciate wild fires until they've lived in So Cal and seen
the damage.

Mark

</pre >
</blockquote >
<br >
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72" >--

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to
persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
--Carl Sagan</pre >
</body >
</html >

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Date: 29 Oct 2007 18:08:10
From:
Subject: Re: "Twister" pins
On Oct 29, 9:41 am, ross smith <rosssmi...@comcast.net > wrote:

> > tony won't have electric until 8th.
>
> his apt. was slightly charred but still standing (unlike others in his
> complex). like i said earlier, he will probably give an update when back
> at his place.- Hide quoted text -
>

Wow, that is close. Glad to hear it's OK. Wonder if it got hot enough
to get the oil out of his bowling balls? If so we can add "wild fires"
along with dishwasher for getting oil out of coverstocks.

Mark




  
Date: 31 Oct 2007 09:47:43
From: Tony R Smith
Subject: Re: "Twister" pins
They got my power on much earlier than projected. I was lucky not to
lose my home, and although I enjoy a little smoky flavor and aroma with
my barbecue it is not as cool when it is your home. Because I lost power
on the day the fire hit my area and subsequently lost my air
conditioning, the inside of my house is not as smoky as it could have
been... but I did lose all of the food in my refrigerator/freezer. It
has been one hell of a year.

2bowlers@gmail.com wrote:
> On Oct 29, 9:41 am, ross smith <rosssmi...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>> tony won't have electric until 8th.
>> his apt. was slightly charred but still standing (unlike others in his
>> complex). like i said earlier, he will probably give an update when back
>> at his place.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>
> Wow, that is close. Glad to hear it's OK. Wonder if it got hot enough
> to get the oil out of his bowling balls? If so we can add "wild fires"
> along with dishwasher for getting oil out of coverstocks.
>
> Mark
>
>


   
Date: 31 Oct 2007 17:50:48
From: 6ballman
Subject: Re: "Twister" pins
Certainly glad you didn't lose your home, pal.


Tony R Smith wrote:
> They got my power on much earlier than projected. I was lucky not to
> lose my home, and although I enjoy a little smoky flavor and aroma
> with my barbecue it is not as cool when it is your home. Because I
> lost power on the day the fire hit my area and subsequently lost my
> air conditioning, the inside of my house is not as smoky as it could
> have been... but I did lose all of the food in my
> refrigerator/freezer. It has been one hell of a year.

Still a "professional" poker player?

--

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to
persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
--Carl Sagan


 
Date: 29 Oct 2007 00:08:23
From:
Subject: Re: "Twister" pins
On Oct 23, 9:29 pm, ross smith <rosssmi...@comcast.net > wrote:
> 6ballman wrote:
> > Tony,
> > Are you in the way of any of those fires?
>
> > Tony R Smith wrote:
> >> They have used Twister pins at Nation...
>
> hey dave, this is ross.
> tony might be offline because he did have to leave is apt. he is staying
> with darrick about an hour north of him. i am sure he will give update
> when available. i don't know if you still have my cell # if you do i can
> give better details.

I think the fires were the only downside to living in SDG. We had one
come within a mile of us while there. Scary stuff.

Mark

ps - Twister pins are the devils work. I'm pretty sure we used them
twice at nationals.




  
Date: 29 Oct 2007 07:41:11
From: ross smith
Subject: Re: "Twister" pins
2bowlers@gmail.com wrote:
> On Oct 23, 9:29 pm, ross smith <rosssmi...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 6ballman wrote:
>>> Tony,
>>> Are you in the way of any of those fires?
>>> Tony R Smith wrote:
>>>> They have used Twister pins at Nation...
>> hey dave, this is ross.
>> tony might be offline because he did have to leave is apt. he is staying
>> with darrick about an hour north of him. i am sure he will give update
>> when available. i don't know if you still have my cell # if you do i can
>> give better details.
>
> I think the fires were the only downside to living in SDG. We had one
> come within a mile of us while there. Scary stuff.
>
> Mark
>
> ps - Twister pins are the devils work. I'm pretty sure we used them
> twice at nationals.
>
> tony won't have electric until 8th.
his apt. was slightly charred but still standing (unlike others in his
complex). like i said earlier, he will probably give an update when back
at his place.


   
Date: 30 Oct 2007 02:38:12
From: Darby
Subject: Re: "Twister" pins
Thanks for letting us know about Tony. I'm sorry to hear of his troubles,
but glad they weren't worse.
Dar
"ross smith" <
>> On Oct 23, 9:29 pm, ross smith <rosssmi...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 6ballman wrote:
>>>> Tony,
>>>> Are you in the way of any of those fires?
>>>> Tony R Smith wrote:
>>>>> They have used Twister pins at Nation...
>>> hey dave, this is ross.
>>> tony might be offline because he did have to leave is apt. he is staying
>>> with darrick about an hour north of him. i am sure he will give update
>>> when available. i don't know if you still have my cell # if you do i can
>>> give better details.
>>
>> I think the fires were the only downside to living in SDG. We had one
>> come within a mile of us while there. Scary stuff.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> ps - Twister pins are the devils work. I'm pretty sure we used them
>> twice at nationals.
>>
>> tony won't have electric until 8th.
> his apt. was slightly charred but still standing (unlike others in his
> complex). like i said earlier, he will probably give an update when back
> at his place.




 
Date: 22 Oct 2007 06:25:22
From: Dan the Man
Subject: Re: "Twister" pins
On Oct 22, 5:11 am, newsreader <wh...@127.0.0.1 > wrote:
> Am going to disagree a bit.
> If a good pocket shot is entering the pocket on the correct board and at
> the correct angle how can twister pins affect the carry line ? I can not
> see how these pins would affect this unless they had weird offset centre
> of gravity or some such.
> My bet is that the standard trick of running the ball into the pocket at
> the correct angle off a ramp would show that the carry was exactly the
> same with twister pins, even at low speeds.
>
> And they do use twister pins in my local centre so have seen the effects
> talked about here. My observation is that the solid pocket hits are
> often not as solid as the bowler thinks it is.
>
> To quote the great Mr Kouros -
> --------------------
> "Four factors affect the carry.
> The mass of the ball
> The speed of the ball
> The angle in the pocket
> The nature of the ball roll."
> "Of these by far the most important is the nature of the ball roll."
> ---------------------
> This is a factor overlooked by a huge number of bowlers in my experience.

Another "wild card" is the accuracy of the pinsetters themselves. If
those twister pins are slightly off-spot, perhaps they emphasize
imperfections in what seems a "solid" hit? Or maybe a hit that appears
perfect will have imperfect results. Just my tuppence.

Dan



  
Date: 22 Oct 2007 15:59:49
From: newsreader
Subject: Re: "Twister" pins
off spot pinsetters (off enough to cause a difference) would cause a
difference irrespective of pin type.
have never seen pin setters off by that much...
Dan the Man wrote:
> On Oct 22, 5:11 am, newsreader <wh...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> Am going to disagree a bit.
>> If a good pocket shot is entering the pocket on the correct board and at
>> the correct angle how can twister pins affect the carry line ? I can not
>> see how these pins would affect this unless they had weird offset centre
>> of gravity or some such.
>> My bet is that the standard trick of running the ball into the pocket at
>> the correct angle off a ramp would show that the carry was exactly the
>> same with twister pins, even at low speeds.
>>
>> And they do use twister pins in my local centre so have seen the effects
>> talked about here. My observation is that the solid pocket hits are
>> often not as solid as the bowler thinks it is.
>>
>> To quote the great Mr Kouros -
>> --------------------
>> "Four factors affect the carry.
>> The mass of the ball
>> The speed of the ball
>> The angle in the pocket
>> The nature of the ball roll."
>> "Of these by far the most important is the nature of the ball roll."
>> ---------------------
>> This is a factor overlooked by a huge number of bowlers in my experience.
>
> Another "wild card" is the accuracy of the pinsetters themselves. If
> those twister pins are slightly off-spot, perhaps they emphasize
> imperfections in what seems a "solid" hit? Or maybe a hit that appears
> perfect will have imperfect results. Just my tuppence.
>
> Dan
>


 
Date: 22 Oct 2007 01:50:43
From: Tony R Smith
Subject: Re: "Twister" pins
They have used Twister pins at Nationals at least once that I know of
(although I am almost positive that it was more than once). My
experience was that solid pocket shots would often cause strange single
and double pin leaves, as well as occasional splits. I had very good
luck with light pocket shots. My observation was that because the pins
acted somewhat dead that they spin better than they fly. Light pockets
shots would make the pins spin and leave "10 on the deck" where as a
heavy/solid pocket shot would tend to shoot the pins back or even up
with little to no mix. I remember getting an unusually high number of 7
pin leaves (I am a righty) on solid pocket shots. My highest success
rate was with a pearl reactive thrown almost out to the channel and back
almost behind the head pin... it didn't sound pretty, but what do you
want... a strike, or a sweet sounding 9 count?

PromptJock wrote:
> At the request of a center owner (we have a good business
> relationship), I "beat up" on some "Twister" pins he's trying for a
> month.
>
> My impression of them are generally FAVORABLE. Here's my
> observations:
>
> 1. True, they don't "sound" like normal pins, but neither do synthetic
> lane surfaces "sound like" wood surfaces. This will "turn off" many
> bowlers until they get used to them.
> 2. They don't "bounce around" like regular pins - they just "fall
> down" backwards like dominoes. This action, in my opinion, produces
> more "explosive" strikes while watching the pins "drive" backwards
> into the pit.
> 3. OTOH, they really bounce off balls and kickbacks!
> 4. They seem to "slide" more on the pin deck when horizontal, rather
> than just "lay down and play dead". This produces more "traveler,
> etc." action which is quite impressive.
> 5. When hit by rolling "travelers", they fall down easier than regular
> pins, IMHO.
> 6. PLASTIC balls seem to carry better than reactives, although "direct
> nose" shots by either WILL produce more splits.
> 7. "Light" pocket hits WILL leave single or dual-pin spares rather
> than carry (see 2. above).
>
> I suppose I can sum-up my observations thusly: bowling with "Twisters"
> is not unlike dealing with a "Sport" oiling - you need greater
> accuracy and speed control to ensure you get carry.
>
> I look forward to reading what others' experiences are. :)
>


  
Date: 23 Oct 2007 18:14:35
From: 6ballman
Subject: Re: "Twister" pins
Tony,
Are you in the way of any of those fires?

Tony R Smith wrote:
> They have used Twister pins at Nation...

--

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to
persist in delusion, however satifying and reassuring."
--Carl Sagan


   
Date: 23 Oct 2007 19:29:52
From: ross smith
Subject: Re: "Twister" pins
6ballman wrote:
> Tony,
> Are you in the way of any of those fires?
>
> Tony R Smith wrote:
>> They have used Twister pins at Nation...
>
hey dave, this is ross.
tony might be offline because he did have to leave is apt. he is staying
with darrick about an hour north of him. i am sure he will give update
when available. idon't know if you still have my cell # if you do i can
give better details.


  
Date: 22 Oct 2007 09:11:52
From: newsreader
Subject: Re: "Twister" pins
Am going to disagree a bit.
If a good pocket shot is entering the pocket on the correct board and at
the correct angle how can twister pins affect the carry line ? I can not
see how these pins would affect this unless they had weird offset centre
of gravity or some such.
My bet is that the standard trick of running the ball into the pocket at
the correct angle off a ramp would show that the carry was exactly the
same with twister pins, even at low speeds.

And they do use twister pins in my local centre so have seen the effects
talked about here. My observation is that the solid pocket hits are
often not as solid as the bowler thinks it is.

To quote the great Mr Kouros -
--------------------
"Four factors affect the carry.
The mass of the ball
The speed of the ball
The angle in the pocket
The nature of the ball roll."
"Of these by far the most important is the nature of the ball roll."
---------------------
This is a factor overlooked by a huge number of bowlers in my experience.


   
Date: 31 Oct 2007 10:13:00
From: Tony R Smith
Subject: Re: "Twister" pins
There are a lot more variables to bowling than the simple construction
of the pins. I am sure that any bowler that has bowled in a variety of
bowling centers will tell you that they have they have seen centers
where a light shot carries better than a solid shot or vice versa. Case
in point... my home bowling center where I used to live in Washington
State had weak side boards. When ever they had the ABT there it was
always the local bowlers that made the cut because they knew that the
only way to carry there was to throw a high and tight pocket shot. The
more you swung the ball and the lighter you hit the pocket the worse
your results were. By comparison, most of the centers in the
Seattle/Tacoma area have live side boards, some of them very live. This
makes for great light pocket shot carry. The same kind of results can
occur if the pins themselves are live or dead. If you have ever bowled
in a center with dead pins you know what I am talking about. What I
posted about the Twister pins was my own observation after bowling at
Nationals with Twister pins. While most of the Team Internet bowler had
the same opinion of Twister pins that Mark did... they are the spawn of
Satan... I did OK against them by simply going light. YMMV. That is my
observation, and I am sticking to it!

newsreader wrote:
> Am going to disagree a bit.
> If a good pocket shot is entering the pocket on the correct board and at
> the correct angle how can twister pins affect the carry line ? I can not
> see how these pins would affect this unless they had weird offset centre
> of gravity or some such.
> My bet is that the standard trick of running the ball into the pocket at
> the correct angle off a ramp would show that the carry was exactly the
> same with twister pins, even at low speeds.
>
> And they do use twister pins in my local centre so have seen the effects
> talked about here. My observation is that the solid pocket hits are
> often not as solid as the bowler thinks it is.
>
> To quote the great Mr Kouros -
> --------------------
> "Four factors affect the carry.
> The mass of the ball
> The speed of the ball
> The angle in the pocket
> The nature of the ball roll."
> "Of these by far the most important is the nature of the ball roll."
> ---------------------
> This is a factor overlooked by a huge number of bowlers in my experience.


   
Date: 23 Oct 2007 13:49:56
From: JohnO
Subject: Re: "Twister" pins
> My bet is that the standard trick of running the ball into the pocket at
> the correct angle off a ramp would show that the carry was exactly the
> same with twister pins, even at low speeds.

You might be right, but remember that those original tests were done with
wooden pins. The results could be different for twisters. The one variable
with wooden pins is that they change over time. Twisters never change,
they're kinda like new wooden pins that never get broken in.



>
> And they do use twister pins in my local centre so have seen the effects
> talked about here. My observation is that the solid pocket hits are often
> not as solid as the bowler thinks it is.


This is true in my observation as well. For example, if the ball is sliding
even a little at the pocket, the heavy gold pins are notorious for 'taps.'
The twisters seem to have a narrower pocket, or possibly a true pocket,
where normal woodies carry better with imperfect shots. I seem to recall we
figured out that the twisters almost required a bit more ball deflection to
carry well, but it's been a while.

-John O




 
Date: 20 Oct 2007 14:50:31
From: JohnO
Subject: Re: "Twister" pins

"PromptJock" <102151.3223@compuserve.com > wrote in message
news:1192825646.986021.144200@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> At the request of a center owner (we have a good business
> relationship), I "beat up" on some "Twister" pins he's trying for a
> month.
>
> My impression of them are generally FAVORABLE. Here's my
> observations:

A few years ago a center here used them for half a season and sent them
back. The leagues were whining about the carry...there were a LOT of 8 and 9
pin leaves suddenly. The owner got tired of the complaints...he has a lot of
competition with other centers and couldn't afford a reputation as a
low-scoring house. Or something.

-John O