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Main
Date: 01 Jan 2005 12:53:37
From: Rick
Subject: Too Slow
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Went to my first house with a radar gun. My ball speed is under 15mph. I
have a 215 avg but have a big problem with my ball hooking too much. Is
under 15 too slow.
Thanks
Rick
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Date: 02 Jan 2005 06:37:59
From: Tony R Smith
Subject: Re: Too Slow
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It depends on the lane conditions, the amount of revs you produce, your
ball choices (coverstock), your axis angle. etc, etc, etc...
Generally speaking, 16-17 MPH is a good speed on most conditions for
most bowlers... However, if you have 20+ revs, as an example, you would
probably want more speed on all but the oiliest conditions. You want a
good rev/speed ratio. 0.7 - 1.0 is good. Much above 1.0 you will
encounter over hooking problems, especially if you have a strong axis
angle. Below 0.7 you will have a problem with carry (beyond that which
normal bowlers have).
Rick wrote:
> Went to my first house with a radar gun. My ball speed is under 15mph. I
> have a 215 avg but have a big problem with my ball hooking too much. Is
> under 15 too slow.
>
> Thanks
> Rick
>
>
>
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Date: 02 Jan 2005 02:17:21
From: Rick
Subject: Re: Too Slow
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I just feel I am to accurate to be only bowling at a 215 clip....That is not
meant to be cocky.
I know that not every shot will produce a strike. Just trying to add a
couple more strikes per game. I am more than willing to try different
shots. Right now I am using a wrist brace and starting with my ball at my
hip, arm bent at a right angle, with my wrist bent up to cut down on my
hook. Going to try moving it up to my chest and see what happens
Thanks
Rick
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Date: 15 Jan 2005 04:55:35
From: CPOWHR
Subject: Re: Too Slow
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>From: "Rick" mgm@starband.net
>I just feel I am to accurate to be only bowling at a 215 clip....That is not
>meant to be cocky.
>
>I know that not every shot will produce a strike. Just trying to add a
>couple more strikes per game. I am more than willing to try different
>shots. Right now I am using a wrist brace and starting with my ball at my
>hip, arm bent at a right angle, with my wrist bent up to cut down on my
>hook. Going to try moving it up to my chest and see what happens
>
>Thanks
>Rick
I wish you luck and hope you do well. At the PBA tournament in El Paso this
week the leader is averaging 283 and 17th place is at a 250 average.
If you average 215 you bowl on an easy shot and should keep quiet about it.
I've bowled in dozens of houses where no one bowled over 200 for a season and
no honor scores were bowled.
You need to quit looking at scores and average and start looking at winning
percentage.
If you bowl great and loose you still have not got the job done!
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Date: 03 Jan 2005 18:05:38
From: twobirds
Subject: Re: Too Slow
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Rick wrote:
> I just feel I am to accurate to be only bowling at a 215 clip....That
> is not meant to be cocky.
>
> I know that not every shot will produce a strike. Just trying to add
> a couple more strikes per game. I am more than willing to try
> different shots. Right now I am using a wrist brace and starting
> with my ball at my hip, arm bent at a right angle, with my wrist bent
> up to cut down on my hook. Going to try moving it up to my chest and
> see what happens
I've read that moving your starting point back a few inches and taking a
slightly longer stride can increase speed.
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Date: 02 Jan 2005 15:18:54
From: Tony R Smith
Subject: Re: Too Slow
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I adjust my ball speed by where I start my ball. Generally speaking, I
start my ball mid chest... If I need more speed to combat drier
conditions I start the ball at chin level... For sloppy wet conditions,
I start the ball at waist level. Many, many years ago I would start the
ball, almost as you have described, with the ball at my thigh and my arm
fully extended (pre-reactive urethane days). It made for a big sweeping
arc shot but didn't give me accuracy or power like what I have now
covering fewer boards and saving the backend reaction for the last 15'.
Rick wrote:
> I just feel I am to accurate to be only bowling at a 215 clip....That is not
> meant to be cocky.
>
> I know that not every shot will produce a strike. Just trying to add a
> couple more strikes per game. I am more than willing to try different
> shots. Right now I am using a wrist brace and starting with my ball at my
> hip, arm bent at a right angle, with my wrist bent up to cut down on my
> hook. Going to try moving it up to my chest and see what happens
>
> Thanks
> Rick
>
>
>
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Date: 02 Jan 2005 02:23:47
From: Rick
Subject: Re: Too Slow
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Forgot to mention my line to pocket.
Right now I stand with my right foot on center dot. I throw it out and to
the left shooting at the second arrow. My ball goes farther out from there
then hooks back to the pocket.
I have used other balls that hooked less where I stood left and throw
straight down at the second arrow with the ball not going any further left.
I like that shot better but...I have to throw as hard as I can or the ball
hooks to hard.
Thanks for all the input
Rick
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Date: 01 Jan 2005 14:56:13
From: Edward \(300\) DeGraaf
Subject: Re: Too Slow
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"Rick" <mgm@starband.net > wrote in message
news:5sBBd.48$nD.10@fe25.usenetserver.com...
> Went to my first house with a radar gun. My ball speed is under 15mph. I
> have a 215 avg but have a big problem with my ball hooking too much. Is
> under 15 too slow.
>
> Thanks
> Rick
I've read the other replies and I disagree. There is no such thing as
throwing the ball too fast or too slow. There is a correct ball speed for
everyone. You are averaging 215. To me, your ball speed must be working for
you. What you need to do is find ball surfaces and drilling patterns that
are appropriate for your ball speed and the lane surface you are bowling on.
Accuracy is more important than ball speed. I always teach accuracy first.
If I need to slow a bowler down or speed a bowler up to make them more
accurate, I will do it. But to say throwing a bowling ball under 15mph is
always too slow is wrong. If you think increasing your ball speed will
automatically raise your average, you are making a mistake. It could also
have the opposite effect.
Edward DeGraaf,
USAB Certified Bronze Level Instructor.
YABA Certified Jr. Olympic Level II Coach.
Latest 300 Game - 09/30/2003.
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Date: 01 Jan 2005 21:43:10
From: Joe Zachar
Subject: Re: Too Slow
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
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Edward (300) DeGraaf wrote:
>"Rick" <mgm@starband.net> wrote in message
>news:5sBBd.48$nD.10@fe25.usenetserver.com...
>
>
>>Went to my first house with a radar gun. My ball speed is under 15mph. I
>>have a 215 avg but have a big problem with my ball hooking too much. Is
>>under 15 too slow.
>>
>>Thanks
>>Rick
>>
>>
>
>I've read the other replies and I disagree. There is no such thing as
>throwing the ball too fast or too slow. There is a correct ball speed for
>everyone. You are averaging 215. To me, your ball speed must be working for
>you. What you need to do is find ball surfaces and drilling patterns that
>are appropriate for your ball speed and the lane surface you are bowling on.
>Accuracy is more important than ball speed. I always teach accuracy first.
>If I need to slow a bowler down or speed a bowler up to make them more
>accurate, I will do it. But to say throwing a bowling ball under 15mph is
>always too slow is wrong. If you think increasing your ball speed will
>automatically raise your average, you are making a mistake. It could also
>have the opposite effect.
>
>Edward DeGraaf,
>USAB Certified Bronze Level Instructor.
>YABA Certified Jr. Olympic Level II Coach.
>Latest 300 Game - 09/30/2003.
>
>
>
>
Adding to what "300 Ed" (insert happy face) said, when I bowled on wood
lane surfaces my proactive or particle balls had to be polished to get
them down the lane. These balls were drilled with the pin over the
finger tip grip. On synthetic surfaces, Brunswick synthetics which are
rated as hard as the bowling balls, I had to put the balls back to
factory finish of 800 to 1000 grit sanded to get them to carry in the
oil. My V2 Pearl, which worked great on wood lanes, is almost never used
on the synthetics, because it gets to the pocket but cannot carry.
Again, this is due to oil on the lane.
Also, checking your ball speed with the bowling alley "radar" will
probably be off about 3 mph. This is due to the fact that the radar
check is further down the lane when the ball is slower from friction
with the lane. A more accurate way to do it is to take a stopwatch and
time the ball from your release point to when it hits the head pin.
Then divide 40.91 by the number of seconds and fractions of a section.
For example if it take your ball 3.4 seconds from release to head pin
you divide 40.91 by 3.4 and get 12.03 mph. If it take 2.5 seconds the
ball speed would be (40.91 divided by 2.5) 16.364 mph.
Fast speed is 17.5 mph or more.
Medium speed is 14.5-17 mph.
Slow speed is 14 mph or less.
Joe Z
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<br >
Edward (300) DeGraaf wrote:<br >
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="midd9ednRBcK5_9nUrcRVn-pQ@wideopenwest.com" >
<pre wrap="" >"Rick" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mgm@starband.net"><mgm@starband.net></a> wrote in message
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:5sBBd.48$nD.10@fe25.usenetserver.com" >news:5sBBd.48$nD.10@fe25.usenetserver.com</a>...
</pre >
<blockquote type="cite" >
<pre wrap="" >Went to my first house with a radar gun. My ball speed is under 15mph. I
have a 215 avg but have a big problem with my ball hooking too much. Is
under 15 too slow.
Thanks
Rick
</pre >
</blockquote >
<pre wrap="" ><!---->
I've read the other replies and I disagree. There is no such thing as
throwing the ball too fast or too slow. There is a correct ball speed for
everyone. You are averaging 215. To me, your ball speed must be working for
you. What you need to do is find ball surfaces and drilling patterns that
are appropriate for your ball speed and the lane surface you are bowling on.
Accuracy is more important than ball speed. I always teach accuracy first.
If I need to slow a bowler down or speed a bowler up to make them more
accurate, I will do it. But to say throwing a bowling ball under 15mph is
always too slow is wrong. If you think increasing your ball speed will
automatically raise your average, you are making a mistake. It could also
have the opposite effect.
Edward DeGraaf,
USAB Certified Bronze Level Instructor.
YABA Certified Jr. Olympic Level II Coach.
Latest 300 Game - 09/30/2003.
</pre >
</blockquote >
Adding to what "300 Ed" (insert happy face) said, when I bowled on wood
lane surfaces my proactive or particle balls had to be polished to get them
down the lane. These balls were drilled with the pin over the finger tip
grip. On synthetic surfaces, Brunswick synthetics which are rated as hard
as the bowling balls, I had to put the balls back to factory finish of 800
to 1000 grit sanded to get them to carry in the oil. My V2 Pearl, which worked
great on wood lanes, is almost never used on the synthetics, because it gets
to the pocket but cannot carry. Again, this is due to oil on the lane.<br >
<br >
Also, checking your ball speed with the bowling alley "radar" will probably
be off about 3 mph. This is due to the fact that the radar check is further
down the lane when the ball is slower from friction with the lane. A more
accurate way to do it is to take a stopwatch and time the ball from your
release point to when it hits the head pin. Then divide 40.91 by the number
of seconds and fractions of a section. For example if it take your ball
3.4 seconds from release to head pin you divide 40.91 by 3.4 and get 12.03
mph. If it take 2.5 seconds the ball speed would be (40.91 divided by 2.5)
16.364 mph.<br >
<br >
Fast speed is 17.5 mph or more.<br >
Medium speed is 14.5-17 mph.<br >
Slow speed is 14 mph or less.<br >
<br >
Joe Z<br >
<br >
<br >
</body >
</html >
--------------030806010406050909040105--
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Date: 01 Jan 2005 15:17:57
From: Jack B
Subject: Re: Too Slow
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I agree. My ball speed is between 15 and 16 mph. Sometimes less if my timing
is off. But what I have found most important is to slow my foot speed down
so my accuracy is consistant. Additionally, I am able to "disengage" muscles
that fast foot work and trying to get my arm timing in sinc requires. More
often than not a person that is not balanced at the foul line can be
attributed to fast feet and swing timing.
And lets not forget Mike Alby. His ball speed was and is much slower than
most. But he is always balanced and accurate.
There are other mechanics that can be learned to decrease hit on the ball.
That is develope more release options. Earl Anthony was noted to have 3
different wrist position; 3 different finger positions; and 3 different none
bowling fingers postions. No wonder he was so successful.
Jack B
"Edward (300) DeGraaf" <edward300@spamwowway.com > wrote in message
news:d9ednRBcK5_9nUrcRVn-pQ@wideopenwest.com...
> "Rick" <mgm@starband.net> wrote in message
> news:5sBBd.48$nD.10@fe25.usenetserver.com...
>> Went to my first house with a radar gun. My ball speed is under 15mph.
>> I
>> have a 215 avg but have a big problem with my ball hooking too much. Is
>> under 15 too slow.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Rick
>
> I've read the other replies and I disagree. There is no such thing as
> throwing the ball too fast or too slow. There is a correct ball speed for
> everyone. You are averaging 215. To me, your ball speed must be working
> for you. What you need to do is find ball surfaces and drilling patterns
> that are appropriate for your ball speed and the lane surface you are
> bowling on. Accuracy is more important than ball speed. I always teach
> accuracy first. If I need to slow a bowler down or speed a bowler up to
> make them more accurate, I will do it. But to say throwing a bowling ball
> under 15mph is always too slow is wrong. If you think increasing your ball
> speed will automatically raise your average, you are making a mistake. It
> could also have the opposite effect.
>
> Edward DeGraaf,
> USAB Certified Bronze Level Instructor.
> YABA Certified Jr. Olympic Level II Coach.
> Latest 300 Game - 09/30/2003.
>
>
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Date: 01 Jan 2005 20:58:26
From: Rick
Subject: Re: Too Slow
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Let's rephrase the question. If I where to increase my speed what would or
could I gain.
I am using a zone demolition now with the factory finish no extra hole in
the side. I am also left-handed and lanes do not break down. I throw my
first ball game 1 the same as last ball game 3.
I feel my ball rolls to early and I lose energy at the end. I am real
accurate right now. Maybe 1 or 2 balls all night are not right in the
pocket. I am trying different things now to slide my ball at start in an
effort to have more energy at the end.
Thanks
Rick
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Date: 03 Jan 2005 01:39:07
From: NimBill
Subject: Re: Too Slow
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>From: "Rick" mgm@starband.net
>Newsgroups: alt.sport.bowling
>Let's rephrase the question. If I where to increase my speed what would or
>could I gain.
>
>I am using a zone demolition now with the factory finish no extra hole in
>the side. I am also left-handed and lanes do not break down. I throw my
>first ball game 1 the same as last ball game 3.
>
>I feel my ball rolls to early and I lose energy at the end. I am real
>accurate right now. Maybe 1 or 2 balls all night are not right in the
>pocket. I am trying different things now to slide my ball at start in an
>effort to have more energy at the end.
>
>Thanks
>Rick
Being able to increase or decrease ball speeds is one of the most inpotant
adjustments to be learned to be able to bowl well.
Ball speed and ball angle are both functions of the approach to the foul line.
ImHO they are more important to learn than ball selection. Learning to adjust
the approach is more important than anything else a bowler needs to learn.
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Date: 02 Jan 2005 06:03:25
From: Ken Zwyers
Subject: Re: Too Slow
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I've got a couple of comments:
1) And I mean this in the best sense, with a 215 average, you can't have too
big of a problem ;-)
2) That said, there are lots of opinions regarding ball speed. My personal
opinion is, if you're hitting the pocket, don't mess with the speed. You
might mess up your timing, and lose your accuracy.
3) You don't mention your preferred line to the pocket. If you're coming
approximately straight up the alley, then hooking to the pocket, a la Walter
Ray, then you might want to experiment with starting further right (I see
you're a lefty like me) and throwing the ball out more. Throwing the ball
out means that it will be rolling "against the spin" a little more. This
means that it should slide a little longer before "grabbing". This might
keep the ball from hooking earlier than you'd like.
Hope this helps some!
Ken Zwyers
"Rick" <mgm@starband.net > wrote in message
news:AyIBd.72$nD.9@fe25.usenetserver.com...
> Let's rephrase the question. If I where to increase my speed what would
or
> could I gain.
>
> I am using a zone demolition now with the factory finish no extra hole in
> the side. I am also left-handed and lanes do not break down. I throw my
> first ball game 1 the same as last ball game 3.
>
> I feel my ball rolls to early and I lose energy at the end. I am real
> accurate right now. Maybe 1 or 2 balls all night are not right in the
> pocket. I am trying different things now to slide my ball at start in an
> effort to have more energy at the end.
>
> Thanks
> Rick
>
>
>
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