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Date: 27 Feb 2008 08:13:49
From:
Subject: Is PBA getting lame
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I have to say that when they said on ESPN that Norm Duke was at risk
of losing his exempt status, I really was a little stunned. It
bothered me. Apparently, he had injuries and health issues and was
not doing well. But with all his done over the years, you would think
he would have earned the right to be a touring pro by now.
Then you throw in the fact that prize money used to be $40,000 for the
winner of a regular tournment and $100,000 for the winner of a major.
That was already kinda of lame compared to golf and tennis. Then they
lower it - now I think its $25,000 and $50,000.
I am not saying I want the top guys to get a guranteed contract of $25
million per year regardless of injury. But geez, you are going to
kick one of the games stars out because he had an injury year. And
you take the prize funds that are already about 10% of golf and tennis
and cut them in half.
Makes me think the PBA is going down the tubes as a viable
professional sport.
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Date: 06 Apr 2008 11:45:22
From: Polarhound
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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craigconnell@yahoo.com wrote:
> I have to say that when they said on ESPN that Norm Duke was at risk
> of losing his exempt status, I really was a little stunned. It
> bothered me. Apparently, he had injuries and health issues and was
> not doing well. But with all his done over the years, you would think
> he would have earned the right to be a touring pro by now.
>
> Then you throw in the fact that prize money used to be $40,000 for the
> winner of a regular tournment and $100,000 for the winner of a major.
> That was already kinda of lame compared to golf and tennis. Then they
> lower it - now I think its $25,000 and $50,000.
>
> I am not saying I want the top guys to get a guranteed contract of $25
> million per year regardless of injury. But geez, you are going to
> kick one of the games stars out because he had an injury year. And
> you take the prize funds that are already about 10% of golf and tennis
> and cut them in half.
>
> Makes me think the PBA is going down the tubes as a viable
> professional sport.
I have been away from bowling for about 13 years. Just recently I was
considering getting back into it.
Every time I watch a PBA event and see some no-name schmuck doing either
his Hulk Hogan impression or jumping around like he won the lottery
every time he gets a strike, it reminds me of why I got out of bowling
in the first place.
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Date: 06 Apr 2008 12:17:07
From: 01dyna
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 11:45:22 -0400, Polarhound
<n05pam@n0tachance1nhell.com > you wrote:
>I have been away from bowling for about 13 years. Just recently I was
>considering getting back into it.
>
>Every time I watch a PBA event and see some no-name schmuck ...
Uh, after 13 years, almost *everyone* is a "no name schmuck" to you
bubba.
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Date: 03 Mar 2008 18:04:55
From:
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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On Mar 3, 10:52=A0am, craigconn...@yahoo.com wrote:
> So would it be so horrible to take guys who have over 20 wins and just
> add them to the first part. =A0
Perhaps more like ten titles but it's a pretty neat idea.
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Date: 03 Mar 2008 17:48:23
From:
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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On Mar 2, 6:54=A0pm, 2bowl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> The PBA has been fairly generous with injury exemptions so that folks
> with injury and legit problems can skip a year.
Typo - I meant injury deferment not exemption.
Mark
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Date: 03 Mar 2008 07:52:48
From:
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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On Mar 2, 6:54=A0pm, 2bowl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Wayne could bowl the qualifier each week and try to get into match
> play if he is still good enough. That route has worked out well for a
> kid named Rhino this year.
>
I read that the commissioner is generally not going to award a
commissioner's exemption any more, but give it to the 5th highest
qualifier. He said he may award an exemption in unusual situations.
Anyway, my understanding is that 64 guys make the tournment - 59
exempt bowlers, the commissioner's exemption, plus 4 qualifiers. Then
they bowl a few rounds and the top 32 guys go on to match play.
So would it be so horrible to take guys who have over 20 wins and just
add them to the first part. In other words, if 6 guys who have over
20 wins show up who are not exempt, just add them in and have the
tournment start with 70. Still have only the top 32 guys go on to
match play. If these over 20 guys can't cut it anymore, they will be
cut out quickly, but the fans can still get their autograph.
I remember Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicholaus showing up at some events
near the end and not doing much.
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Date: 02 Mar 2008 16:48:19
From:
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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On Mar 2, 5:42=A0pm, PromptJock <102151.3...@compuserve.com > wrote:
> > Why doesn't make upmore - 5 strikes could be "a soup
> > bone" or something.
>
> If you watched today's finals, I think Stone ** DID ** come up with
> one for a 5-bagger based, apparently, on an e-mail he received:
> "Yahtzee"!
>
> Kinda makes sense, in a wierd kind of way, if you've ever played it. :)
In what other sport does some idiot just come in and start making up
names for stuff. Can you imagine in baseball some announcer saying
Jeter hit for - hmm - let's call it - yes - a Yahtzee. Jeter hit a
for a Yahtzee today. And no one ever used that term in baseball
before.
Did you see Peterson's face at the beginning of the telecast. His
face looked like "Oh god, why do I have to deal with this idiot."
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Date: 02 Mar 2008 15:57:39
From:
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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On Mar 1, 10:25=A0am, Max <m...@nospam.net > wrote:
> Can you imagine some rude little twerp celebrating a birdie on the
> >green as Tiger Woods sets up beside him for his putt?
Tiger would just sink the putt, win the tournament and cash the check.
What are you going to do when Tiger mania runs wild all over you
brother!!!!
Mark
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Date: 02 Mar 2008 15:54:57
From:
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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On Mar 2, 8:06=A0am, Bernie Cosell <ber...@fantasyfarm.com > wrote:
> I remember thinking that his gripe was partly true and
> partly false: the 'true' part is that he *is* a "real champion", in the
> hall of fame, and maybe bowling _does_ "owe him" something (and he >would =
be a draw for the fans, etc)
The PBA has been fairly generous with injury exemptions so that folks
with injury and legit problems can skip a year. I'm very glad to see
Duke take a major and get a two year exemption but you have to wonder
why he didn't take an exemption this year and get healthy again
(unless for some reason he asked and was denied but that would be
absolute stupidity by the PBA given that Duke is one of very few legit
stars that they have left.
For guys like Webb, I agree with Bernie in that life moves on. To be
specific, the PBA is not closed to anyone that wants to try and make a
show, win a title and get an exemption. There are several routes:
Wayne could bowl the qualifier each week and try to get into match
play if he is still good enough. That route has worked out well for a
kid named Rhino this year.
Wayne can win an exempt spot though the PTQ if he is still good
enough.
Wayne can be the top points getter in his region and earn an exempt
spot for the following year (if he is good enough). He could them keep
that spot if he is good enough.
Realize I'm just picking on Wayne because he is the name that was
brought up. He seems like a good guy and there are a number of fellows
who used to be good enough to carve out a living that now find they
cannot compete week to week at the level required. It's called getting
old and it happens to everyone. Voss is a classic example. Ozio is
another. Great players and a joy to watch but they can't knock the
pins down like the kids can.
The sad thing here is not that Wayne isn't out on the Jr tour anymore.
It is that the PBA killed what was a thriving Senior PBA tour that
many felt was far more enjoyable and entertaining than the junior
tour.
Mark
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Date: 02 Mar 2008 14:42:54
From: PromptJock
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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> Why doesn't make upmore - 5 strikes could be "a soup
> bone" or something.
If you watched today's finals, I think Stone ** DID ** come up with
one for a 5-bagger based, apparently, on an e-mail he received:
"Yahtzee"!
Kinda makes sense, in a wierd kind of way, if you've ever played it. :)
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Date: 02 Mar 2008 09:20:41
From:
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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On Mar 1, 9:02=A0am, Max <m...@nospam.net > wrote:
> I don't know what the answer is, but fireworks and yelling and
> spraying spit in each others faces isn't the answer.
>
If you go to the pba web page, apparently the pba and ESPN believe
that using cute little phrases, like calling 4 strikes "a hambone," is
the way to go. Why doesn't make upmore - 5 strikes could be "a soup
bone" or something.
Having said that, I am thinking of taking my daughter to the US open
and I might bring a hambone sign to see if we can get on TV.
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Date: 02 Mar 2008 08:06:17
From: Bernie Cosell
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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craigconnell@yahoo.com wrote:
} I have to say that when they said on ESPN that Norm Duke was at risk
} of losing his exempt status, I really was a little stunned.
Despite my posting about how sort-of-similar things happen in the PGA, I
actually agree!! I think the tour would be better off to allow the likes
of Duke, Brian Voss and other long-time, hall-of-fame, popular champions to
compete.
Anyone remember Wayne Webb's gripes in "A League of Ordinary Gentlemen"
when he was facing the fact that he was not going to be able to qualify for
the tour again? I remember thinking that his gripe was partly true and
partly false: the 'true' part is that he *is* a "real champion", in the
hall of fame, and maybe bowling _does_ "owe him" something (and he would be
a draw for the fans, etc); the false part is that life moves on and it did
appear that he just can't compete at the tour-level any more.
/Bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers
bernie@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA
-- > Too many people, too few sheep <--
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Date: 01 Mar 2008 10:23:17
From:
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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One of the problems I see, is that the pros are so good that a very
high % of their first balls are in play. In match play, one guy gets
a ringing ten or a solid 9 or something and the other guy gets a
messenger. Because the scoring places such a premium on stringing
strikes, it amplifies the luck factor. The bad luck guy is now 20
points behind (assuming the bad luck broke up a string of strikes)
just because he had bad luck and the other guy had good luck on one
shot.
Over the long course of a tournment, the luck evens out. But in the
match play they show on TV, that's only 1 game, it sure looks like
luck determines the winner.
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Date: 02 Mar 2008 08:01:05
From: Bernie Cosell
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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craigconnell@yahoo.com wrote:
} One of the problems I see, ... In match play, one guy gets
} a ringing ten or a solid 9 or something and the other guy gets a
} messenger. Because the scoring places such a premium on stringing
} strikes, it amplifies the luck factor.
[...]
} Over the long course of a tournment, the luck evens out. But in the
} match play they show on TV, that's only 1 game, it sure looks like
} luck determines the winner.
I think folks have been making this complaint ever since ABC [TV, not
bowling org..:o)] convinced the PBA to adopt the 'stepladder' format for
the TV finals.
/Bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers
bernie@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA
-- > Too many people, too few sheep <--
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Date: 01 Mar 2008 12:13:51
From: PromptJock
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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> Tennis, at its heights, had the likes of McENROE and AGASSI and
> CONNORS(very colorful characters) and the sport thrived. =A0Now, tennis
> has become dull once again with ratings way down and network television
> dropping almost every tournament during the last few years.
IOW, one could say tennis suffered a "net loss" here? ;]
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Date: 01 Mar 2008 10:52:06
From: John Sowell
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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Golf does not need attitude the way you guys are describing and neither
does bowling. I just think its too lame and boring out there. Golf
never needed attitude since its always been a RELAXATION sport. Golf
helps peoples mental game in many other sports that they participate in
and so find it hugely beneficial in their own lives People go out there
to socialize, mingle and just relax on an early Sunday morning. People
watch golf in huge numbers because of the EXPOSURE it gets and the way
the PGA promotes it. There are no bad guys in golf and they dont need
any to increase viewer participation. Golf sells itself based on what it
produces in peoples lives.
Tennis, at its heights, had the likes of McENROE and AGASSI and
CONNORS(very colorful characters) and the sport thrived. Now, tennis
has become dull once again with ratings way down and network television
dropping almost every tournament during the last few years.
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Date: 01 Mar 2008 16:11:08
From: Max
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 10:52:06 -0800, GALO@webtv.net (John Sowell) graced
this newsgroup with:
>
>Golf does not need attitude the way you guys are describing and neither
>does bowling. I just think its too lame and boring out there. Golf
>never needed attitude since its always been a RELAXATION sport. Golf
>helps peoples mental game in many other sports that they participate in
>and so find it hugely beneficial in their own lives People go out there
>to socialize, mingle and just relax on an early Sunday morning. People
>watch golf in huge numbers because of the EXPOSURE it gets and the way
>the PGA promotes it. There are no bad guys in golf and they dont need
>any to increase viewer participation. Golf sells itself based on what it
>produces in peoples lives.
>
>Tennis, at its heights, had the likes of McENROE and AGASSI and
>CONNORS(very colorful characters) and the sport thrived. Now, tennis
>has become dull once again with ratings way down and network television
>dropping almost every tournament during the last few years.
in other words, people didn't watch tennis for the sport, they watched
it for the theatrics.
Great, and the very same people will migrate to another sport with
better theatrics when that happens...like pro wrestling.
We don't need migrant, fair weather fans. We need a loyal fan base. I
don't watch the PBA telecasts for the "excitement" any more than PGA
fans expect that in their sport. I watch it because I *love* the sport
and appreciate the talent it takes to get and remain at the top.
When they went all glitzy and in-your-face, I stopped watching it. If
I want to see that, I can go down to my local center any Saturday
night and watch the kiddies cosmic bowl.
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Date: 01 Mar 2008 00:28:53
From: John Sowell
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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Unfortunately, sponsor money does not grow on trees. Sponsors just are
not there or wont be there until bowling produces some bowling stars
that are not afraid to have some IN YOUR FACE attitude. Watching the
demeanor of these guys is actually kind of boring to me and it seems
there are no great rivalries with ATTITUDE that are healthy for public
viewing. Its just the same old thing and the same old remarks that just
does not place excitement on the sport. Its boring to watch. Dont get
me wrong, i love the game but not as a spectator sport.
There are greater rivalries at the local level with more exciting
players than i see on the tube.
Until the sport realizes that they have to MOLD individuals into bigger
and more exciting rivalries, the sport is just going to go into an even
bigger decline as far as sponsors are concerned.
Its just too NICE out there on Televison Land.
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Date: 01 Mar 2008 14:56:56
From: Darby
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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In your face bowling is not a meaningful way to increase interest in the
sport. Can you imagine some rude little twerp celebrating a birdie on the
green as Tiger Woods sets up beside him for his putt?
Dar
"John Sowell" <GALO@webtv.net >
>
> Unfortunately, sponsor money does not grow on trees. Sponsors just are
> not there or wont be there until bowling produces some bowling stars
> that are not afraid to have some IN YOUR FACE attitude. Watching the
> demeanor of these guys is actually kind of boring to me and it seems
> there are no great rivalries with ATTITUDE that are healthy for public
> viewing. Its just the same old thing and the same old remarks that just
> does not place excitement on the sport. Its boring to watch. Dont get
> me wrong, i love the game but not as a spectator sport.
> There are greater rivalries at the local level with more exciting
> players than i see on the tube.
>
> Until the sport realizes that they have to MOLD individuals into bigger
> and more exciting rivalries, the sport is just going to go into an even
> bigger decline as far as sponsors are concerned.
>
> Its just too NICE out there on Televison Land.
>
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Date: 01 Mar 2008 10:25:21
From: Max
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 14:56:56 GMT, "Darby" <tenpinhawkeye@mchsi.com >
graced this newsgroup with:
>In your face bowling is not a meaningful way to increase interest in the
>sport. Can you imagine some rude little twerp celebrating a birdie on the
>green as Tiger Woods sets up beside him for his putt?
>Dar
>
LOL, then Tiger, in a fit of rage, grabs a bystanders foldout chair
and slams it down on the twerps noggin, thus sparking an all out riot
where the caddies attack each other by body slamming each other
onto the fairway and throwing their clubs at the fans. This is
all followed by much muscle flexing and yelling into the announcers
mic.
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Date: 01 Mar 2008 09:02:47
From: Max
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 00:28:53 -0800, GALO@webtv.net (John Sowell) graced
this newsgroup with:
>
>Unfortunately, sponsor money does not grow on trees. Sponsors just are
>not there or wont be there until bowling produces some bowling stars
>that are not afraid to have some IN YOUR FACE attitude. Watching the
>demeanor of these guys is actually kind of boring to me and it seems
>there are no great rivalries with ATTITUDE that are healthy for public
>viewing. Its just the same old thing and the same old remarks that just
>does not place excitement on the sport. Its boring to watch. Dont get
>me wrong, i love the game but not as a spectator sport.
>There are greater rivalries at the local level with more exciting
>players than i see on the tube.
>
>Until the sport realizes that they have to MOLD individuals into bigger
>and more exciting rivalries, the sport is just going to go into an even
>bigger decline as far as sponsors are concerned.
>
>Its just too NICE out there on Televison Land.
sooo..the reason that the PGA is so popular is that Tiger beats the
shit of his opponents with his 5 iron?
Personally, I don't think turning the PBA into a pro wrestling match
does anything to raise the perception of the sport.
I don't know what the answer is, but fireworks and yelling and
spraying spit in each others faces isn't the answer.
-aki
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Date: 28 Feb 2008 09:15:52
From:
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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>
> I did read that Tiger Woods has a "permanent PGA card." =A0What does
> that mean?
Below is from Wilkipedia - you get 2 years for winning a regular
tournment and winning more than one tournmant allows you to keep
adding more years on to your exemption until you get to 5. Also, if
you get over 20 wins, you do get a life exemption. So in essence they
do have a "you been terrific" exemption. So Duke would have gotten to
add more years on to his exemption from multiple wins in prior years
and he would have gotten a life time exemption because he has more
than 20 wins.
"At the end of each year, the top 125 money-winners on the PGA Tour
receive a tour card for the following season, which gives them
exemption from qualifying for most of the next year's tournaments.
However at some events, known as invitationals, exemptions apply only
to the previous year's top seventy players. Players who are ranked
between 126-150 receive a conditional tour card, which gives them
priority for places that are not taken up by players with full cards.
Winning a PGA Tour event provides a tour card for a minimum of two
years, with an extra year added for each additional win with a maximum
of five years. Winning a World Golf Championships event or The Tour
Championship provides a three-year exemption. Winners of the major
championships and The Players Championship earn a five-year exemption.
Other types of exemptions include lifetime exemptions for players with
twenty wins on the tour; one-time, one year exemptions for players in
the top fifty on the career money earnings list who are not otherwise
exempt; two-time, one year exemptions for players in the top twenty-
five on the career money list; and medical exemptions for players who
have been injured, which give them an opportunity to regain their tour
card after a period out of the tour"
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Date: 28 Feb 2008 09:03:40
From:
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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> As an interesting comparison, I just read "Tales from Q School", which is
> about the qualifying machinery for golfers trying to get on the PGA tour.
> And it looks like things are similar there, too: there's no "popularity" o=
r
> "longevity" or "you've been terrific in the past" exemptions. =A0One of th=
e
> golfers that Feinstein followed in the book was a former PGA
> *master's*champion* [who now was trying to fight the qual-trail against
> "the kids" to get his tour card back]
>
> So it isn't just the PBA that makes you 'earn your card' pretty much every=
> year...
I did read that Tiger Woods has a "permanent PGA card." What does
that mean?
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Date: 28 Feb 2008 07:27:51
From: Bernie Cosell
Subject: Re: Is PBA getting lame
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craigconnell@yahoo.com wrote:
} I have to say that when they said on ESPN that Norm Duke was at risk
} of losing his exempt status, I really was a little stunned. It
} bothered me. Apparently, he had injuries and health issues and was
} not doing well. But with all his done over the years, you would think
} he would have earned the right to be a touring pro by now.
As an interesting comparison, I just read "Tales from Q School", which is
about the qualifying machinery for golfers trying to get on the PGA tour.
And it looks like things are similar there, too: there's no "popularity" or
"longevity" or "you've been terrific in the past" exemptions. One of the
golfers that Feinstein followed in the book was a former PGA
*master's*champion* [who now was trying to fight the qual-trail against
"the kids" to get his tour card back]
So it isn't just the PBA that makes you 'earn your card' pretty much every
year...
/Bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers
bernie@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA
-- > Too many people, too few sheep <--
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