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Date: 04 Jan 2005 09:54:03
From: TonyAtRest
Subject: In the event of a Forfeit situation...
Couple weeks ago in my Wed. league we had a situation where the opposing team
only had two members show up to bowl and league rules state that a team must
have three members ready to bowl at 6:30 PM or else forfeit. The question that
arose was what scores our team had to bowl in order to win their points. Rules
said that in order to get the 5 points for a team game we had to be within 50
pins of our team average for each game. For individual points, within ten
pins. But what was not stated in the rule was, that if our team did win the
team game but an individual lost his point by not getting within ten of his
average, did the team still get the point, thus getting ten points for that
game (5 for the team game and 5 individual points) even though the individual
who did not get within ten pins of his average would not receive an individual
point, or is the point not awarded, thus giving the winning team less than ten
points? We assumed that the forfeiting team could not win any points since
they did not have a legal line-up. And it seemed like it would be very odd to
award less than the normal 35 points in a given 3 game block (5 points are also
awarded for total pins). In an normal absentee situation, if a bowler does not
get within ten pins of the absentee score he does not win his individual point,
but, if the team still wins, the team gets the point. We assume a similar
situation in this forfeit situation.

The league secretary gave the three points that we did not get within ten pins
of our averages on, to the team that forfeited, which we contend is wrong since
there is no way they could win any points. We say that either we should get
the points, or they should go unawarded/ Anyone ever encounter a similar
situation?

Tony


"It seems we all endure
And what I'm frightened of is that they call it God's love"

Bad Religion




 
Date: 04 Jan 2005 10:46:35
From: Smokey
Subject: Re: In the event of a Forfeit situation...
> Couple weeks ago in my Wed. league we had a situation where the opposing
team
> only had two members show up to bowl and league rules state that a team
must
> have three members ready to bowl at 6:30 PM or else forfeit. The question
that
> arose was what scores our team had to bowl in order to win their points.
Rules
> said that in order to get the 5 points for a team game we had to be within
50
> pins of our team average for each game. For individual points, within ten
> pins. But what was not stated in the rule was, that if our team did win
the
> team game but an individual lost his point by not getting within ten of
his
> average, did the team still get the point, thus getting ten points for
that
> game (5 for the team game and 5 individual points) even though the
individual
> who did not get within ten pins of his average would not receive an
individual
> point, or is the point not awarded, thus giving the winning team less than
ten
> points? We assumed that the forfeiting team could not win any points
since
> they did not have a legal line-up. And it seemed like it would be very
odd to
> award less than the normal 35 points in a given 3 game block (5 points are
also
> awarded for total pins). In an normal absentee situation, if a bowler
does not
> get within ten pins of the absentee score he does not win his individual
point,
> but, if the team still wins, the team gets the point. We assume a similar
> situation in this forfeit situation.
>
> The league secretary gave the three points that we did not get within ten
pins
> of our averages on, to the team that forfeited, which we contend is wrong
since
> there is no way they could win any points. We say that either we should
get
> the points, or they should go unawarded/ Anyone ever encounter a similar
> situation?

Jeff is correct: YOUR TEAM only won points for those games where you
met/exceeded the scoring "threshold" (team average less 10 pins/team
member). The "lost" points DID NOT go to the forfeiting team.

The bowlers who showed up on the FORFEITING TEAM, however, still get the
games they bowled and pins they actually knocked down added to their
"running total". If they did manage to get any "honors" for awards (i.e.
high game, series, etc.), they'll still get them IF their "achievements"
survive the season and such. :)




  
Date: 04 Jan 2005 15:39:29
From: Jeff Rife
Subject: Re: In the event of a Forfeit situation...
Smokey (102151.3223@compuserve.com) wrote in alt.sport.bowling:
> Jeff is correct: YOUR TEAM only won points for those games where you
> met/exceeded the scoring "threshold" (team average less 10 pins/team
> member). The "lost" points DID NOT go to the forfeiting team.
>
> The bowlers who showed up on the FORFEITING TEAM, however, still get the
> games they bowled and pins they actually knocked down added to their
> "running total".

In addition to this, in the match play leagues I have bowled in, a forfeit
by the team does not prevent individuals who are there from winning
individual points (which are often tracked for prizes at the end of the
year).

So, the bowlers that show up can get individual points, but the team loses
all points associated with that game, no matter what.

On the other side, the team wins points for the game if the *team* beats
its blind. The team wins points for individual matches if the individual
bowlers beat their opponent, whether their opponent is there or not. When
the other guy isn't there, then the definition of "beat" depends on the rules.
Some leagues require you to beat the actual blind score of your opponent, and
some require you to beat your blind.

--
Jeff Rife


   
Date: 05 Jan 2005 12:22:04
From: TonyAtRest
Subject: Re: In the event of a Forfeit situation...
>>They can't. Points you did not win go nowhere, so that points won't add up
at the end of the year.

So there does not have to be awarded a full complement of points each night?
We weren't sure about that.


>>Jeff is correct: YOUR TEAM only won points for those games where you
met/exceeded the scoring "threshold" (team average less 10 pins/team
member). The "lost" points DID NOT go to the forfeiting team.

Well the secretary DID award them to the forfeiting team, but when we
questioned him he said he was going to correct the situation the following
week.

>>The bowlers who showed up on the FORFEITING TEAM, however, still get the
games they bowled and pins they actually knocked down added to their
"running total". If they did manage to get any "honors" for awards (i.e.
high game, series, etc.), they'll still get

Right that part was not in question, although what is to keep them from
sandbagging? Not that they did, but we had the incentive of getting within ten
pins of our average in order to win a point, but for the two guys there, there
seems to be nothing in place to keep them from, you know, bowling a 50 or
something.


>>
In addition to this, in the match play leagues I have bowled in, a forfeit
by the team does not prevent individuals who are there from winning
individual points (which are often tracked for prizes at the end of the
year).

So, the bowlers that show up can get individual points, but the team loses
all points associated with that game, no matter what?

So in other words in that situation or team would be awarded all ten points in
a given game, their team zero, but they would get individual points separate
from the team score? Makes sense but I don't think our league is doing it that
way. Seems more fair to the guys who did show up.

Tony




 
Date: 04 Jan 2005 12:11:26
From: Jeff Rife
Subject: Re: In the event of a Forfeit situation...
TonyAtRest (tonyatrest@aol.com) wrote in alt.sport.bowling:
> Couple weeks ago in my Wed. league we had a situation where the opposing team
> only had two members show up to bowl and league rules state that a team must
> have three members ready to bowl at 6:30 PM or else forfeit. The question that
> arose was what scores our team had to bowl in order to win their points. Rules
> said that in order to get the 5 points for a team game we had to be within 50
> pins of our team average for each game. For individual points, within ten
> pins. But what was not stated in the rule was, that if our team did win the
> team game but an individual lost his point by not getting within ten of his
> average, did the team still get the point, thus getting ten points for that
> game (5 for the team game and 5 individual points) even though the individual
> who did not get within ten pins of his average would not receive an individual
> point, or is the point not awarded, thus giving the winning team less than ten
> points? We assumed that the forfeiting team could not win any points since
> they did not have a legal line-up.

They can't. Points you did not win go nowhere, so that points won't add up
at the end of the year.

--
Jeff Rife


 
Date: 04 Jan 2005 12:24:14
From: Joe Zachar
Subject: Re: In the event of a Forfeit situation...
You will probably have to file

TonyAtRest wrote:

>Couple weeks ago in my Wed. league we had a situation where the opposing team
>only had two members show up to bowl and league rules state that a team must
>have three members ready to bowl at 6:30 PM or else forfeit. The question that
>arose was what scores our team had to bowl in order to win their points. Rules
>said that in order to get the 5 points for a team game we had to be within 50
>pins of our team average for each game. For individual points, within ten
>pins. But what was not stated in the rule was, that if our team did win the
>team game but an individual lost his point by not getting within ten of his
>average, did the team still get the point, thus getting ten points for that
>game (5 for the team game and 5 individual points) even though the individual
>who did not get within ten pins of his average would not receive an individual
>point, or is the point not awarded, thus giving the winning team less than ten
>points? We assumed that the forfeiting team could not win any points since
>they did not have a legal line-up. And it seemed like it would be very odd to
>award less than the normal 35 points in a given 3 game block (5 points are also
>awarded for total pins). In an normal absentee situation, if a bowler does not
>get within ten pins of the absentee score he does not win his individual point,
>but, if the team still wins, the team gets the point. We assume a similar
>situation in this forfeit situation.
>
>The league secretary gave the three points that we did not get within ten pins
>of our averages on, to the team that forfeited, which we contend is wrong since
>there is no way they could win any points. We say that either we should get
>the points, or they should go unawarded/ Anyone ever encounter a similar
>situation?
>
>Tony
>
>
>"It seems we all endure
>And what I'm frightened of is that they call it God's love"
>
>Bad Religion
>
>