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Date: 13 Feb 2005 14:40:59
From: twobirds
Subject: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
I've had two fellows coaching me... One is the pro-shop man and he's a
Columbia seller and beleives in the product. The other fellow is another
guy that works at the same bowling center maintaining the lanes and
equipment etc. The second fellow isn't loyal to any "brand". Both agree on
what they are teaching me and both are happy with my progress.

The second fellow has a hand about the same size as mine (just a slightly
shorter span). He gave me a ball to make my game a little more versatile.
It is a Storm Fire Power drilled stacked leverage for more lift. - I've
been throwing a Columbia Jeckyl drilled label leverage for more stability
(the pro shop man knocked the shine off it for me for a slightly more
agressive cover, though).

The two balls I now have are actually rather similar as far as how agressive
the cover stock is, but they roll quite differently than one another. The
storm seems to carry better, but my columbia is more controllable... The
columbia is more forgiving and "reads the lane" longer. The storm hits a
lot harder, but I really have to hit my mark perfectly and have a very good
release to be sure I'm going to be in the pocket and not leave a split.

OK - The first coach saw me throwing the "new" ball in practice and didn't
seem very pleased. He says I'm probably ready for a more agressive
drilling, but he didn't seem to like that ball. I didn't get a real answer,
but he left me with the impression that he thought I should stick with one
brand... I really don't think he was regretting a missed sale - I mean, I
don't think he was hoping to sell me another ball in the very near future so
I don't think the fact he is the pro shop guy is why he didn't like the
ball.

So, that leaves me wondering if there is a school of thought with reasons to
be brand loyal with bowling equipment. So, is there any real reason to be
brand loyal?







 
Date: 08 Mar 2005 12:30:28
From: BowlerCentral.com
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer> update
I am glad to see you found something to fit. I know that it is always
good to have a purchase work out close to expectations.

You can have the Pro Shop guy send me my commission check in the mail
: )

Just kidding.

It sounds like you are working hard at bowling.

Wishing you continued success.

Marc
BowlerCentral.com
marc@bowlercentral.com



 
Date: 03 Mar 2005 10:51:57
From: BowlerCentral.com
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer> update
Well twobirds, I am very happy that you found something that looks like
it is going to give you the results you want.

Remember that the Messenger Traction is a sanded ball and has the
ability to create a bit more friction that you are used to. So you are
going to want to concentrate on spots/marks farther down the lane in
order to get the ball to go just a bit deeper before making the turn
back to the pocket.

You mentioned that you will have issues picking up the 10 pin with that
ball. I would use the jekyll or I would invest in a White Dot or other
spare ball. $60 bucks drilled in most pro shops and then you just
shoot straight at the corners.

Marc
www.bowlercentral.com



  
Date: 03 Mar 2005 23:13:04
From: twobirds
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer> update
BowlerCentral.com wrote:
> Well twobirds, I am very happy that you found something that looks
> like it is going to give you the results you want.
>
> Remember that the Messenger Traction is a sanded ball and has the
> ability to create a bit more friction that you are used to. So you
> are going to want to concentrate on spots/marks farther down the lane
> in order to get the ball to go just a bit deeper before making the
> turn back to the pocket.
>
> You mentioned that you will have issues picking up the 10 pin with
> that ball. I would use the jekyll or I would invest in a White Dot
> or other spare ball. $60 bucks drilled in most pro shops and then
> you just shoot straight at the corners.
>

I did well with that combo tonight. My series was 129 pins over average and
that is exactly what I did. I threw the TI Traction all night except for
ten pins and 6-10 spares which I used my jekyll for.. I picked all but one
ten pin and had a good night.

I had a practice session with my coach today as well. He also happens to be
the fellow who drilled the ball.... Anyway, it was a "timing" lesson today
and it was very beneficial. I didn't put up any really big scores tonight,
but my scores and bowling were more consistant than ever before. I couldn't
be much more pleased with that choice of ball compared to the lane
conditions today and the application of the lesson I had today. I only
missed my mark badly three times in three games. Twice, the ball was able
to recover because of some dry boards on the outside at about thirty six
feet, and the other time I just held on way too long and picked only the
seven pin in the first rack (got the spare, though).

Thanks again for your advice on the TI Traction. I'm very pleased with how
it fits my current abilities and I'm also very happy with how it handles
oil. - Furthermore, the TI Traction just seems to hit harder and carry
better. My jekyll won't stay in the bag because I'm very comfortable with
it for ten pins, and I'll need it when I find dry lane conditions... but the
TI Traction just really seems to fit my abilities very well and I'm finding
it easy to control and predict.




  
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Date: 19 Feb 2005 15:28:48
From: Mark
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?

Paul Horvick wrote:
> So, Mark...tell us how you really feel!
>
> Paul Horvick
> youthbowling.com

Hi Paul - Hope all is well with you. I'm just making my annual Feb/Mar
ASB appearance prior to nationals. It's the time of year when I get
excited about bowling. A few more weeks and it's back to lurk mode!

Cheers,

Mark



 
Date: 18 Feb 2005 06:19:01
From: Mark
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?

clark wrote:
> didnt know i was being graded............

There are obviously a lot of things you don't know. In context,
however, the point is that you came in with an undeserved superior
attitude that didn't address the thread and thus far has added zero
value to the discussion. In these days of lowered expectations, I doubt
you will add anything of value in the near term, but this is a friendly
group and you'll get a fair chance.

The original poster is quite obviously a new bowler who is trying hard
to improve his game. He appears to be working hard with some folks
(putative coaches) to improve his physical skills. He is naturally
interested in learning about how equipment can help him score. When I
see someone working hard to improve I don't beat them down, I offer
them a hand. Like it or not, equipment is a big part of this game when
one is trying to maximize scores. You obviously understand this and
don't like it or you wouldn't have been so negative about the original
question. Frankly, I don't like the importance of having the right ball
as it defocuses from bowler skill to technology. But what is is and
equipment knowledge is part of being a complete player (unless you have
a ball rep holding your hand).

I think we all recognize that today's typical house conditions are dirt
easy and pretty much anyone with decent skills can score. You appeared
to think that this was new information but it is actually a blinding
glimpse of the obvious. You also appear to have missed that the OP has
aspirations of bowling on more difficult conditions and trying his hand
at tournament bowling where he won't see a wall every week. These
aspirations in new players need to be encouraged if the sport is to
remain viable. Note I said "sport" by which I indicate the competitive
aspects of bowling which is very different than weekly league. When you
start regularly winning regionals or megabuck tournaments carrying one
ball and your white dot feel free to let us know. When you do this I
will salute you as a far superior player. Note to self - do not hold
breath.

In context of the discussion, your jumping in and spewing that anyone
with a clue should be 2-teen with either hand is not helpful. Frankly
is an attitude that contributes to the overall decline in the game. It
appears that you earn some income from bowling, one might think you'd
be more interested in attracting bowlers than in pushing them away. I
would add that pining for the good old days is tilting at windmills.
Frankly, the good old days were not that great, we were all simply
younger and lacked a historical perspective on life and the game. To
wit, today's conditions are not that much different from when lacquer
was on the alley and folks kept notebooks of how to play each lane in
their city. The only significant difference is that relative scoring
has gone up 15-20 pins for the better players. That's materials
technology at work and speaks not a bit to relative physical skills.
Big deal, we recalibrate just like every other sport and move forward.
As they say, the more things change the more they stay the same.

Welcome to ASB. If you'd like to be perceived as someone who brings
value drop the attitude and post something that isn't a hackneyed
rehash of the obvious. Else you'll just be relegated to the same refuse
bin as scores of other self appointed know-it-alls that have passed
through these electronic halls for brief periods only to disappear when
their obvious greatness was left unrecognized by the unwashed masses.


Mark



  
Date: 18 Feb 2005 20:27:44
From: Paul Horvick
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
So, Mark...tell us how you really feel!

Paul Horvick
youthbowling.com

"Mark" <twobowlers@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1108736341.547082.280670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> clark wrote:
>> didnt know i was being graded............
>
> There are obviously a lot of things you don't know. In context,
> however, the point is that you came in with an undeserved superior
> attitude that didn't address the thread and thus far has added zero
> value to the discussion. In these days of lowered expectations, I doubt
> you will add anything of value in the near term, but this is a friendly
> group and you'll get a fair chance.
>
> The original poster is quite obviously a new bowler who is trying hard
> to improve his game. He appears to be working hard with some folks
> (putative coaches) to improve his physical skills. He is naturally
> interested in learning about how equipment can help him score. When I
> see someone working hard to improve I don't beat them down, I offer
> them a hand. Like it or not, equipment is a big part of this game when
> one is trying to maximize scores. You obviously understand this and
> don't like it or you wouldn't have been so negative about the original
> question. Frankly, I don't like the importance of having the right ball
> as it defocuses from bowler skill to technology. But what is is and
> equipment knowledge is part of being a complete player (unless you have
> a ball rep holding your hand).
>
> I think we all recognize that today's typical house conditions are dirt
> easy and pretty much anyone with decent skills can score. You appeared
> to think that this was new information but it is actually a blinding
> glimpse of the obvious. You also appear to have missed that the OP has
> aspirations of bowling on more difficult conditions and trying his hand
> at tournament bowling where he won't see a wall every week. These
> aspirations in new players need to be encouraged if the sport is to
> remain viable. Note I said "sport" by which I indicate the competitive
> aspects of bowling which is very different than weekly league. When you
> start regularly winning regionals or megabuck tournaments carrying one
> ball and your white dot feel free to let us know. When you do this I
> will salute you as a far superior player. Note to self - do not hold
> breath.
>
> In context of the discussion, your jumping in and spewing that anyone
> with a clue should be 2-teen with either hand is not helpful. Frankly
> is an attitude that contributes to the overall decline in the game. It
> appears that you earn some income from bowling, one might think you'd
> be more interested in attracting bowlers than in pushing them away. I
> would add that pining for the good old days is tilting at windmills.
> Frankly, the good old days were not that great, we were all simply
> younger and lacked a historical perspective on life and the game. To
> wit, today's conditions are not that much different from when lacquer
> was on the alley and folks kept notebooks of how to play each lane in
> their city. The only significant difference is that relative scoring
> has gone up 15-20 pins for the better players. That's materials
> technology at work and speaks not a bit to relative physical skills.
> Big deal, we recalibrate just like every other sport and move forward.
> As they say, the more things change the more they stay the same.
>
> Welcome to ASB. If you'd like to be perceived as someone who brings
> value drop the attitude and post something that isn't a hackneyed
> rehash of the obvious. Else you'll just be relegated to the same refuse
> bin as scores of other self appointed know-it-alls that have passed
> through these electronic halls for brief periods only to disappear when
> their obvious greatness was left unrecognized by the unwashed masses.
>
>
> Mark
>




 
Date: 17 Feb 2005 14:51:05
From: Mark
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?

clark wrote:

> any other questions???

Sure,

Why is it that whenever someone new jumps in with a post that is (1)
antagonistic and belittles others and (2) rants on about stuff that has
been covered over and over and over since this newsgroup was founded
about 15 years ago they are (3) always averaging 2-teen on "not so easy
conditions" with their eyes closed and (4) they never provide any
useful information or thoughts that are remotely el?

Just curious.

Mark



  
Date: 18 Feb 2005 00:54:15
From: clark
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
(1) havnt belittled anyone if your affended by the truth why(2)since im a
"newby" i wouldnt know what this group has covered in the last 15
years(3)never said my eyes were closed(4)telling you your wasting your money
trying to buy a hook and or average is information just not the kind you
want to hear
"Mark" <twobowlers@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1108680665.662840.254520@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> clark wrote:
>
> > any other questions???
>
> Sure,
>
> Why is it that whenever someone new jumps in with a post that is (1)
> antagonistic and belittles others and (2) rants on about stuff that has
> been covered over and over and over since this newsgroup was founded
> about 15 years ago they are (3) always averaging 2-teen on "not so easy
> conditions" with their eyes closed and (4) they never provide any
> useful information or thoughts that are remotely el?
>
> Just curious.
>
> Mark
>




   
Date: 18 Feb 2005 12:59:33
From: John O
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
> (1) havnt belittled anyone if your affended by the truth why(2)since im a
> "newby" i wouldnt know what this group has covered in the last 15
> years(3)never said my eyes were closed(4)telling you your wasting your
> money
> trying to buy a hook and or average is information just not the kind you
> want to hear

Welcome to ASB. There's room for everyone (except that jones dude) here.

I might add (5) failing to consider the experience and knowledge of other
newsgroup participants. At many levels you're preaching to the choir. If
Mark is who I think he is, he has considerable bowling knowledge and skill,
and is one of the more intelligent posters I've ever seen in ASB. Plus, he
appears to grasp the mechanics of the written version of this language.

If you want to rail on about ball-of-the-month bowlers and the demise of
bowling because of easy oil patterns, knock yourself out. I doubt you'll get
much argument here.

-John O




  
Date: 17 Feb 2005 18:04:15
From: Darby
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
I think it's osmosis. My average is going down and I'm struggling with
adjusting, lane conditions, release, etc. I think these young guns are
soaking it up, absorbing it from the air, and there's none left for me!
:(
Dar

"Mark" <twobowlers@aol.com > wrote
> clark wrote:
>
>> any other questions???
>
> Sure,
>
> Why is it that whenever someone new jumps in with a post that is (1)
> antagonistic and belittles others and (2) rants on about stuff that has
> been covered over and over and over since this newsgroup was founded
> about 15 years ago they are (3) always averaging 2-teen on "not so easy
> conditions" with their eyes closed and (4) they never provide any
> useful information or thoughts that are remotely el?
>
> Just curious.
>
> Mark
>




 
Date: 16 Feb 2005 22:49:18
From: BowlerCentral.com
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
At first I was not going to reply to Clark's post, but he is the one
who is making me laugh.

I almost think is should be a rule in this group that if you are going
to come and bash others opinions you should have to provide verifiable
credentials as to your experience and the level of your game.
The topic was about the advantages of sticking with one ball
manufacturer and it rolled into a discussion about a few certain balls.
But Clark feels the need to come in and be condensending while
imposing his beliefs.

At first read, Clark sounds like a league bowler who rolls 2-3 times a
week in his local center and nowhere else, and probably carries
something around 214. Probably has a Blue Angle and Yellow Dot in his
bag and the same Linds shoes his wife got him for Christmas in 1974.
BUT WAIT...see I am just assuming and fabricating this information, and
while the above is pretty funny to me, that probably is not Clark at
all. But just as he assumes he knows best and that we "take the bait
the companies throw at you " and that over half of us don't practice,
are unable to read lane conditions and get 3 spares a game, I just did
the same in assumption about his game

Bottom line Clark is that some of us want to get better and we share
info and ideas in such a forum like this. Personally, I have my
favorite 2-3 balls (one polished, one sanded and a plastic spare ball)
that I can shoot on just about any condition. But there are times,
where I need to play a totally different line that my 2-3 favs can't
produce the results as effectively as I want. Now notice I said as
effectively. There are times when I need results right now (ie high
roller or money tournaments). I can't wait to make that adjustment
over 2-3 frames, i need a new line right now, out and away from where
everyone one else is burning up and leaving wet/dry zones. I go to the
bag and grab my tool just as a golfer would grab the correct club for
his next shot. Clark if you have the answer for changing a line
mid-game and making a 7-10 board line adjustment with the same
equipment on a variety of conditions with just a foul line or a
targeting adjustment, and you are more than 90% confident that you will
get the strike or a solid pocket hit, please let me know. I will write
the book and we will get rich together. If you know something we
don't, please share. And that is no bash or slam, I mean that with the
most sincerest of intentions. Tell us the secret.

Now I am not bashing Clarks opinions, just in the manner that he
presented them. In fact, I agree with him that many bowlers want the
easy fix. Our centers are putting up the easy wall shot and the scores
are going through the roof and the bowling ball companies are feeding
the scoring frenzy by rolling out all these new balls. On most house
conditions, you should be able to throw those same two balls all night
and every night. But a guy trying to dial in on the best ball for
himself deserves a bit more courtesy.



  
Date: 17 Feb 2005 00:42:39
From: clark
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
just for my bio
bowl once per week ,dont practice,.at 217on a shot that is not to
forgiving,carry a white dot @ eb trimax ,wife wouldnt know a pair of linds
if she saw them ,have been drilling balls for 10 years+,have been working in
a center for 25 years 15 of which i was the laneman,and no i dont bowl where
i work,that avg is L.H carried over deuce R.H before changing,any other
questions???
"BowlerCentral.com" <marc@bowlercentral.com > wrote in message
news:1108622958.845974.205890@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> At first I was not going to reply to Clark's post, but he is the one
> who is making me laugh.
>
> I almost think is should be a rule in this group that if you are going
> to come and bash others opinions you should have to provide verifiable
> credentials as to your experience and the level of your game.
> The topic was about the advantages of sticking with one ball
> manufacturer and it rolled into a discussion about a few certain balls.
> But Clark feels the need to come in and be condensending while
> imposing his beliefs.
>
> At first read, Clark sounds like a league bowler who rolls 2-3 times a
> week in his local center and nowhere else, and probably carries
> something around 214. Probably has a Blue Angle and Yellow Dot in his
> bag and the same Linds shoes his wife got him for Christmas in 1974.
> BUT WAIT...see I am just assuming and fabricating this information, and
> while the above is pretty funny to me, that probably is not Clark at
> all. But just as he assumes he knows best and that we "take the bait
> the companies throw at you " and that over half of us don't practice,
> are unable to read lane conditions and get 3 spares a game, I just did
> the same in assumption about his game
>
> Bottom line Clark is that some of us want to get better and we share
> info and ideas in such a forum like this. Personally, I have my
> favorite 2-3 balls (one polished, one sanded and a plastic spare ball)
> that I can shoot on just about any condition. But there are times,
> where I need to play a totally different line that my 2-3 favs can't
> produce the results as effectively as I want. Now notice I said as
> effectively. There are times when I need results right now (ie high
> roller or money tournaments). I can't wait to make that adjustment
> over 2-3 frames, i need a new line right now, out and away from where
> everyone one else is burning up and leaving wet/dry zones. I go to the
> bag and grab my tool just as a golfer would grab the correct club for
> his next shot. Clark if you have the answer for changing a line
> mid-game and making a 7-10 board line adjustment with the same
> equipment on a variety of conditions with just a foul line or a
> targeting adjustment, and you are more than 90% confident that you will
> get the strike or a solid pocket hit, please let me know. I will write
> the book and we will get rich together. If you know something we
> don't, please share. And that is no bash or slam, I mean that with the
> most sincerest of intentions. Tell us the secret.
>
> Now I am not bashing Clarks opinions, just in the manner that he
> presented them. In fact, I agree with him that many bowlers want the
> easy fix. Our centers are putting up the easy wall shot and the scores
> are going through the roof and the bowling ball companies are feeding
> the scoring frenzy by rolling out all these new balls. On most house
> conditions, you should be able to throw those same two balls all night
> and every night. But a guy trying to dial in on the best ball for
> himself deserves a bit more courtesy.
>




   
Date: 17 Feb 2005 23:48:00
From: D K
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
clark wrote:

> just for my bio
> bowl once per week ,dont practice,.at 217on a shot that is not to
> forgiving,carry a white dot @ eb trimax ,wife wouldnt know a pair of linds
> if she saw them ,have been drilling balls for 10 years+,have been working in
> a center for 25 years 15 of which i was the laneman,and no i dont bowl where
> i work,that avg is L.H carried over deuce R.H before changing,any other
> questions???

Yup. Have you ever heard of a sentence? It is a device used to help clarify
communication.

Just curious,
signed,
Mr. Curious



>
> "BowlerCentral.com" <marc@bowlercentral.com> wrote in message
> news:1108622958.845974.205890@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > At first I was not going to reply to Clark's post, but he is the one
> > who is making me laugh.
> >
> > I almost think is should be a rule in this group that if you are going
> > to come and bash others opinions you should have to provide verifiable
> > credentials as to your experience and the level of your game.
> > The topic was about the advantages of sticking with one ball
> > manufacturer and it rolled into a discussion about a few certain balls.
> > But Clark feels the need to come in and be condensending while
> > imposing his beliefs.
> >
> > At first read, Clark sounds like a league bowler who rolls 2-3 times a
> > week in his local center and nowhere else, and probably carries
> > something around 214. Probably has a Blue Angle and Yellow Dot in his
> > bag and the same Linds shoes his wife got him for Christmas in 1974.
> > BUT WAIT...see I am just assuming and fabricating this information, and
> > while the above is pretty funny to me, that probably is not Clark at
> > all. But just as he assumes he knows best and that we "take the bait
> > the companies throw at you " and that over half of us don't practice,
> > are unable to read lane conditions and get 3 spares a game, I just did
> > the same in assumption about his game
> >
> > Bottom line Clark is that some of us want to get better and we share
> > info and ideas in such a forum like this. Personally, I have my
> > favorite 2-3 balls (one polished, one sanded and a plastic spare ball)
> > that I can shoot on just about any condition. But there are times,
> > where I need to play a totally different line that my 2-3 favs can't
> > produce the results as effectively as I want. Now notice I said as
> > effectively. There are times when I need results right now (ie high
> > roller or money tournaments). I can't wait to make that adjustment
> > over 2-3 frames, i need a new line right now, out and away from where
> > everyone one else is burning up and leaving wet/dry zones. I go to the
> > bag and grab my tool just as a golfer would grab the correct club for
> > his next shot. Clark if you have the answer for changing a line
> > mid-game and making a 7-10 board line adjustment with the same
> > equipment on a variety of conditions with just a foul line or a
> > targeting adjustment, and you are more than 90% confident that you will
> > get the strike or a solid pocket hit, please let me know. I will write
> > the book and we will get rich together. If you know something we
> > don't, please share. And that is no bash or slam, I mean that with the
> > most sincerest of intentions. Tell us the secret.
> >
> > Now I am not bashing Clarks opinions, just in the manner that he
> > presented them. In fact, I agree with him that many bowlers want the
> > easy fix. Our centers are putting up the easy wall shot and the scores
> > are going through the roof and the bowling ball companies are feeding
> > the scoring frenzy by rolling out all these new balls. On most house
> > conditions, you should be able to throw those same two balls all night
> > and every night. But a guy trying to dial in on the best ball for
> > himself deserves a bit more courtesy.
> >

--
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
--George Burns




    
Date: 18 Feb 2005 00:56:02
From: clark
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
didnt know i was being graded............
"D K" <david.kent@rochester.rr.com > wrote in message
news:42152D1A.27DAEC99@rochester.rr.com...
> clark wrote:
>
> > just for my bio
> > bowl once per week ,dont practice,.at 217on a shot that is not to
> > forgiving,carry a white dot @ eb trimax ,wife wouldnt know a pair of
linds
> > if she saw them ,have been drilling balls for 10 years+,have been
working in
> > a center for 25 years 15 of which i was the laneman,and no i dont bowl
where
> > i work,that avg is L.H carried over deuce R.H before changing,any other
> > questions???
>
> Yup. Have you ever heard of a sentence? It is a device used to help
clarify
> communication.
>
> Just curious,
> signed,
> Mr. Curious
>
>
>
> >
> > "BowlerCentral.com" <marc@bowlercentral.com> wrote in message
> > news:1108622958.845974.205890@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > > At first I was not going to reply to Clark's post, but he is the one
> > > who is making me laugh.
> > >
> > > I almost think is should be a rule in this group that if you are going
> > > to come and bash others opinions you should have to provide verifiable
> > > credentials as to your experience and the level of your game.
> > > The topic was about the advantages of sticking with one ball
> > > manufacturer and it rolled into a discussion about a few certain
balls.
> > > But Clark feels the need to come in and be condensending while
> > > imposing his beliefs.
> > >
> > > At first read, Clark sounds like a league bowler who rolls 2-3 times a
> > > week in his local center and nowhere else, and probably carries
> > > something around 214. Probably has a Blue Angle and Yellow Dot in his
> > > bag and the same Linds shoes his wife got him for Christmas in 1974.
> > > BUT WAIT...see I am just assuming and fabricating this information,
and
> > > while the above is pretty funny to me, that probably is not Clark at
> > > all. But just as he assumes he knows best and that we "take the bait
> > > the companies throw at you " and that over half of us don't practice,
> > > are unable to read lane conditions and get 3 spares a game, I just did
> > > the same in assumption about his game
> > >
> > > Bottom line Clark is that some of us want to get better and we share
> > > info and ideas in such a forum like this. Personally, I have my
> > > favorite 2-3 balls (one polished, one sanded and a plastic spare ball)
> > > that I can shoot on just about any condition. But there are times,
> > > where I need to play a totally different line that my 2-3 favs can't
> > > produce the results as effectively as I want. Now notice I said as
> > > effectively. There are times when I need results right now (ie high
> > > roller or money tournaments). I can't wait to make that adjustment
> > > over 2-3 frames, i need a new line right now, out and away from where
> > > everyone one else is burning up and leaving wet/dry zones. I go to
the
> > > bag and grab my tool just as a golfer would grab the correct club for
> > > his next shot. Clark if you have the answer for changing a line
> > > mid-game and making a 7-10 board line adjustment with the same
> > > equipment on a variety of conditions with just a foul line or a
> > > targeting adjustment, and you are more than 90% confident that you
will
> > > get the strike or a solid pocket hit, please let me know. I will
write
> > > the book and we will get rich together. If you know something we
> > > don't, please share. And that is no bash or slam, I mean that with the
> > > most sincerest of intentions. Tell us the secret.
> > >
> > > Now I am not bashing Clarks opinions, just in the manner that he
> > > presented them. In fact, I agree with him that many bowlers want the
> > > easy fix. Our centers are putting up the easy wall shot and the scores
> > > are going through the roof and the bowling ball companies are feeding
> > > the scoring frenzy by rolling out all these new balls. On most house
> > > conditions, you should be able to throw those same two balls all night
> > > and every night. But a guy trying to dial in on the best ball for
> > > himself deserves a bit more courtesy.
> > >
>
> --
> "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
> Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
> --George Burns
>
>




 
Date: 15 Feb 2005 13:24:13
From: BowlerCentral.com
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
Well if we are talking Columbia, I can chime back in. I like the
Jekyll on most house shots especially late when there is carry-down. I
find the Jekyll allows me to correct very quickly and change my entry
angle, line ect. I might start with something else, but if the lanes
are breaking down and I need a bit less movement and a smooth line to
the pocket, I can't do any better than the Jekyll.

Not knowing what kind of bowler you are in relation to your line, speed
and ability to put or remove turn on the ball, it is hard for anyone to
give you a solid answer. In fact your pro shop guy or even the lane
man might have greater insight. But i will make two suggestions based
on two different types of bowlers and you can take it for what its
worth and in comparasion to how you roll.

If you require more control and you do not have above average speed and
higher revs you might consider the Messenger TI Traction. I like the
core on this ball and the dull finish coverstock is reactive in oil.
If you have the speed, control and revs, then you might just step up
into the Throttle or the Bully. The new m80 coverstock on the Bully
cuts oil very well and the Throttle line has been out for a while and
the prices are going down. If the heads dry up, these two balls can be
difficult to throw through the wet/dry zones.



  
Date: 19 Feb 2005 01:48:11
From: twobirds
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
BowlerCentral.com wrote:

>
> If you require more control and you do not have above average speed
> and higher revs you might consider the Messenger TI Traction.

I found a guy on one of the leagues I joined who has one. He let me try it
today... I had to palm it because his thumb is much smaller than mine, so I
really still don't know for sure if this is what I want (palming it created
unusually high revs), but best guesse is that this should be about right, so
I think I'll go ahead and order one.

Thanks again for your input.




   
Date: 25 Feb 2005 16:44:21
From: twobirds
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer> update
twobirds wrote:
> BowlerCentral.com wrote:
>
>>
>> If you require more control and you do not have above average speed
>> and higher revs you might consider the Messenger TI Traction.
>

Bought it today. - Wonderful ball and it carries a lot better than my
Jekyll. I had it drilled nearly identicle to my jekyll, but the lable is
shifted just a little to put the pin just higher than my ring finger and
outside my ring finger about an inch and a half or so - with cg in my palm.

There is a US Open tourney in my favorite house tomorrow so the lane man put
out a tough shot today for those who wanted practice. The difference in the
movement I was able to generate was exactly what I was hoping for. I was
able to step back 15 inches further than I have been lately and take
advantage of a longer stroke. - I don't have a lot of revs so I'm not
hooking from coast to coast like some guys probably would with this ball,
but I did have to move three boards left and still went brooklyn more often
than I wanted to.

The first game I bowled was a learning experience, but I figured it out
quicky enough. It would be a heck of a struggle for me to get the ten with
this ball, but I'll try to straighten it out :-)

Lastly, it sounds different. This ball makes a totally different sound when
it finds the pocket. I never really cared about that before... but I found
myself chuckling a bit and enjoying the resounding "Crack!".




  
Date: 15 Feb 2005 18:53:15
From: twobirds
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
BowlerCentral.com wrote:
> Well if we are talking Columbia, I can chime back in. I like the
> Jekyll on most house shots especially late when there is carry-down.
> I find the Jekyll allows me to correct very quickly and change my
> entry angle, line ect. I might start with something else, but if the
> lanes are breaking down and I need a bit less movement and a smooth
> line to the pocket, I can't do any better than the Jekyll.

I have to agree with that for a house shot. As you know, though, most house
shots are designed to keep league averages high... I can explain that.
Let's say I'm the house owner. I'll tell my lane man to create a very
forgiving shot so that both the league players and open bowl customers have
a little more fun and are more likely to be in a good enough mood to spend
that extra half-hour in the bar or order some french fries or whatever. It
is all about how long you can keep bodies in the building and what they
consume while they are there. If people are "bowling well", they are
probably having fun and will stay longer.

This month happens to have a tournament at my favorite house every weekend.
All-City is this weekend... there's the Wild Turkey in a couple of weeks..
the PBA is next weekend... So, I'm not playing on a house shot this month.
I'm playing on a much more difficult condition.

>
> Not knowing what kind of bowler you are in relation to your line,
> speed and ability to put or remove turn on the ball, it is hard for
> anyone to give you a solid answer.

Maybe I can explain but words are not nearly as effective as sight :-).

For the house shot, I stand 20 and throw 7 (even though that is just a bit
narrow for my width... I have wide shoulders). I've developed some speed
versatility but I'm still having trouble increasing or decreasing revs. My
ball speed is under 18mph and I can decrease it for oil down to maybe 13 or
14mph. I can also make small adjustments by opening or closing my
shoulders, but I still occasionally miss left when trying to make those
subtle adjustments. - I'm very new to throwing a hook (just 5 or 6 weeks or
so), but I've played no less than 7 games a day since purchasing my jeckyl
and I've been getting coaching for the last two or three weeks. I'm a fast
study and I've recently put up three series in league play that were all
around 150 pins over my average, and one that was a couple of hundred over.
I attribute that mostly to learning some fundamental mechanics and being
able to discard old (read: 'bad') habits.

>
> If you require more control and you do not have above average speed
> and higher revs you might consider the Messenger TI Traction. I like
> the core on this ball and the dull finish coverstock is reactive in
> oil.

I did some reading and this seems like a very good suggestion. I've been
thinking a lot about the jekyl's brother Hyde also. Some of the marketing
material the pro-shop guy has leads me to think that I might be pretty happy
owning it... The Columbia 300 website shows a very similar hook rating for
the Messanger TI Traction and the Hyde, but there is a higher track flare
for the Messanger TI Traction and their cores are vastly different. Any
thought on choosing between the two? The Messanger TI Traction should get
more rotation off the hand due to the core... The Hyde should theoretically
hit a little more consistantly with most of its mass in the center of the
ball. Other than that, I don't really know what to consider to make that
choice.


>If you have the speed, control and revs, then you might just
> step up into the Throttle or the Bully. The new m80 coverstock on
> the Bully cuts oil very well and the Throttle line has been out for a
> while and the prices are going down. If the heads dry up, these two
> balls can be difficult to throw through the wet/dry zones.

Yup. I don't have the speed. My favorite house strips every morning, so
where it is dry.. well, it is completely dry. I think those are probably
far too agressive for my current abilities.




   
Date: 15 Feb 2005 21:05:14
From: clark
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
you people really make me laugh buy this ball for this buy that ball for
that the fact is they all the same except for the really stupid names they
give them but for some reason you take the bait the companies throw at you
sure you might think the NEW ball helped you punch out in the tenth but i
have yet to see any ball in my 30 plus years throwing them that could not
knock down all ten from 6lbers on up, seems like everyone likes to chirp up
on shooting this big game or that big series with the lastest and greatest
addition to there arsenal but they dont mention the buck 20s,30s,40s shot
with the same ball ON the condition they bought the ball for!!!!!!stop
wasting your money on the lastest and greatest believe it or not the same
ball can produce great scores on any condition but of course you might have
to practice (lost half of you there)be able to read a lane condition(lost
another 1/4)and make more than 3 spares a game(lost another1/8)get 2 balls
that really feel good in your hand sand one polish the other play what the
lane has to offer make your spares if your not carrying 2teen look in the
mirror not in your bag for the reason why!!!!!!!!!!! @bresnan.com...
> BowlerCentral.com wrote:
> > Well if we are talking Columbia, I can chime back in. I like the
> > Jekyll on most house shots especially late when there is carry-down.
> > I find the Jekyll allows me to correct very quickly and change my
> > entry angle, line ect. I might start with something else, but if the
> > lanes are breaking down and I need a bit less movement and a smooth
> > line to the pocket, I can't do any better than the Jekyll.
>
> I have to agree with that for a house shot. As you know, though, most
house
> shots are designed to keep league averages high... I can explain that.
> Let's say I'm the house owner. I'll tell my lane man to create a very
> forgiving shot so that both the league players and open bowl customers
have
> a little more fun and are more likely to be in a good enough mood to spend
> that extra half-hour in the bar or order some french fries or whatever.
It
> is all about how long you can keep bodies in the building and what they
> consume while they are there. If people are "bowling well", they are
> probably having fun and will stay longer.
>
> This month happens to have a tournament at my favorite house every
weekend.
> All-City is this weekend... there's the Wild Turkey in a couple of weeks..
> the PBA is next weekend... So, I'm not playing on a house shot this
month.
> I'm playing on a much more difficult condition.
>
> >
> > Not knowing what kind of bowler you are in relation to your line,
> > speed and ability to put or remove turn on the ball, it is hard for
> > anyone to give you a solid answer.
>
> Maybe I can explain but words are not nearly as effective as sight :-).
>
> For the house shot, I stand 20 and throw 7 (even though that is just a bit
> narrow for my width... I have wide shoulders). I've developed some speed
> versatility but I'm still having trouble increasing or decreasing revs.
My
> ball speed is under 18mph and I can decrease it for oil down to maybe 13
or
> 14mph. I can also make small adjustments by opening or closing my
> shoulders, but I still occasionally miss left when trying to make those
> subtle adjustments. - I'm very new to throwing a hook (just 5 or 6 weeks
or
> so), but I've played no less than 7 games a day since purchasing my jeckyl
> and I've been getting coaching for the last two or three weeks. I'm a
fast
> study and I've recently put up three series in league play that were all
> around 150 pins over my average, and one that was a couple of hundred
over.
> I attribute that mostly to learning some fundamental mechanics and being
> able to discard old (read: 'bad') habits.
>
> >
> > If you require more control and you do not have above average speed
> > and higher revs you might consider the Messenger TI Traction. I like
> > the core on this ball and the dull finish coverstock is reactive in
> > oil.
>
> I did some reading and this seems like a very good suggestion. I've been
> thinking a lot about the jekyl's brother Hyde also. Some of the marketing
> material the pro-shop guy has leads me to think that I might be pretty
happy
> owning it... The Columbia 300 website shows a very similar hook rating
for
> the Messanger TI Traction and the Hyde, but there is a higher track flare
> for the Messanger TI Traction and their cores are vastly different. Any
> thought on choosing between the two? The Messanger TI Traction should get
> more rotation off the hand due to the core... The Hyde should
theoretically
> hit a little more consistantly with most of its mass in the center of the
> ball. Other than that, I don't really know what to consider to make that
> choice.
>
>
> >If you have the speed, control and revs, then you might just
> > step up into the Throttle or the Bully. The new m80 coverstock on
> > the Bully cuts oil very well and the Throttle line has been out for a
> > while and the prices are going down. If the heads dry up, these two
> > balls can be difficult to throw through the wet/dry zones.
>
> Yup. I don't have the speed. My favorite house strips every morning, so
> where it is dry.. well, it is completely dry. I think those are probably
> far too agressive for my current abilities.
>
>




    
Date: 16 Feb 2005 02:40:48
From: twobirds
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
clark wrote:
> you people really make me laugh buy this ball for this buy that ball
> for that the fact is they all the same except for the really stupid
> names they give them but for some reason you take the bait the
> companies throw at you sure you might think the NEW ball helped you
> punch out in the tenth but i have yet to see any ball in my 30 plus
> years throwing them that could not knock down all ten from 6lbers on
> up,

You might have 30 years of bowling, but you need a little more usenet
experience. If you must top post, please snip.

Now, apparently your top posting also made it difficult for you to
understand the thread. I never once said that any ball helped me punch out
in the tenth or anything else. If you actually read the thread, you will
find that I said my better scores are due to two things: learning
fundamental skills from my coaches and my ability to discard my old (and
bad) habits.

<snip >
>get 2 balls that really feel good in your hand sand one
> polish the other play what the lane has to offer make your spares if
> your not carrying 2teen look in the mirror not in your bag for the
> reason why!!!!!!!!!!! @bresnan.com...

Please read the thread from the beginning. You will see that I happen to
currently own two balls that are similar cover stock. Those balls both
happen to be "shiny". I'm looking for one to be "dull". I need help with
my oil game and that help has to be slightly beyond slowing my delivery and
closing my shoulders. I need an oil ball (what you are calling "dull").
The cover stock on both the balls I currently have could be sanded
crosshatch with a relatively coarse grit, but they both have something
working against them if I do that... They both have rather thin covers and
those covers aren't as hard as covers on many other balls. Their covers can
only be sanded a few times before the integrity of the cover might be
compromised.

Is "two-teen" what you consider a good bowler should be able to carry? Then
fine. Sounds good to me. I'd really rather carry something closer to 240 +
in my favorite house and be good enough at figuring out lane conditions to
carry something perhaps 20 or 25% less than that in any other house in the
country that I happen to walk into... but "two-teen" is what I'm doing now
just a month and a half after going from a straight ball to a hook and only
three weeks after getting a little coaching. I'd like to hope I didn't max
out my potential in less than two months. When I went and looked at my
previous average, I was actually surprized it was lower than I thought. I
went from holding a 141 average with my straight ball to not having a series
under 580 for my last 4 league nights throwing a hook. 141 to "two-teen"
was six weeks of work. What will the next six weeks bring me? How about
the next year? What if I do this another thirty years?

Have football helmets and pads changed since 1975? How about a golf club in
a pro's bag? From where I'm sitting, I can see some soccer cleats I wore in
'79 and a set I bought my kid a week ago for the upcoming spring season...
they don't look anything alike. I personally think that the sport of
bowling is just as difficult as any other sport. There is a lot to know and
there is a lot to think about if you want to be consistant. Having the
tools that fit your ability isn't a bad idea... To me, that doesn't matter
if it is a ball designed to fit a need you have or if it is a wrist brace or
if it is a $139.00 pair of ABS shoes that it takes a month to get the
combination of soles right with just to be comfortable with your slide (I
personally own a 12 dollar set of K-Mart brunswick shoes, but I know a lot
of guys in $150.00 Dexter SST-6's...)

So, if you are knocking me for wanting to be a better bowler, and if you are
doing so without even reading the thread... well, you deserve to lose the 3
or 4 minutes from your life that it must have taken you to read this. :-)
Cheers!


--
spare math: 3, 6, 9 - 4, 8, 12




 
Date: 14 Feb 2005 18:36:08
From: BowlerCentral.com
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
In my opinion, you never have to do anything with equipment as long as
it passes inspection or if you are under contract by a certain company.

That being said, I like to stick the one ball manufacturer mainly due
to the fact that if I don't like something about my current equipment,
it is easier to find the piece I am missing. For instance, I have
Columbia300 equipment. My game is seeing new changes and I know by
what my specs are on the current equipment, what other balls in the
Columbia line will provide the desired results. For Columbia, I know
the different cams and cores as well as the different coverstocks. It
is also easier to compare same mfg to same mfg because the ratings are
the same. You cant find the same math in hook ratings, and flare
ratings from Columbia to Storm to EBO Ect.

Personally I think it saves on the confusion. I would hate to buy a
hammer that after I got used to throwing it, it pretty much does the
same thing as something else in my bag.



  
Date: 14 Feb 2005 21:11:47
From: twobirds
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
BowlerCentral.com wrote:
>
> That being said, I like to stick the one ball manufacturer mainly due
> to the fact that if I don't like something about my current equipment,
> it is easier to find the piece I am missing. For instance, I have
> Columbia300 equipment.

The answers from everyone are much appreciated.

OK - Now I have another question: Columbia is what is most readily
available to me, so my next ball will probably be Columbia. Both the balls
I have now are really only good (for my game anyway) with dry back ends and
medium oil. Heavy oil and carry-down defeat their action and leave me only
with a very tight down and in shot. I'm going to want to add a heavy-oil
ball. I've been reading to understand drilling patterns etc... I think
I'll have it drilled only a little bit more agressive than lable leverage.

So, for heavy oil and carry down (and considering only a mildly agressive
drilling), what would be a good choice?




 
Date: 13 Feb 2005 21:35:26
From: Edward \(300\) DeGraaf
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
> So, that leaves me wondering if there is a school of thought with reasons
> to
> be brand loyal with bowling equipment. So, is there any real reason to be
> brand loyal?

I wish I was compensated, but I am not. That said, I do stick with AMF
equipment. My parents always bought me AMF bowling balls and I've stuck with
them. Does it mean AMF is the best? NO! I just means I like it. I used an
AMF Valor-P to throw my last 300 game. I have recommended non-AMF equipment
plenty of times. Get plenty of opinions if you're not sure what ball to get.
By no means should you listen to someone who ONLY wants you to buy one brand
of bowling ball. That is, unless they are going to pay you to use it or give
it to you free.

Edward DeGraaf,
USBC Certified Bronze Level Instructor.
Latest 300 Game - 09/30/2003.




  
Date: 14 Feb 2005 14:05:00
From: jerri
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:35:26 -0500, "Edward \(300\) DeGraaf"
<edward300@spamwowway.com > wrote:

>> So, that leaves me wondering if there is a school of thought with reasons
>> to
>> be brand loyal with bowling equipment. So, is there any real reason to be
>> brand loyal?
>
>I wish I was compensated, but I am not. That said, I do stick with AMF
>equipment. My parents always bought me AMF bowling balls and I've stuck with
>them. Does it mean AMF is the best? NO! I just means I like it. I used an
>AMF Valor-P to throw my last 300 game. I have recommended non-AMF equipment
>plenty of times. Get plenty of opinions if you're not sure what ball to get.
>By no means should you listen to someone who ONLY wants you to buy one brand
>of bowling ball. That is, unless they are going to pay you to use it or give
>it to you free.
>
>Edward DeGraaf,
>USBC Certified Bronze Level Instructor.
>Latest 300 Game - 09/30/2003.
>
AMF is the only brand I will NOT use. Other than that I use whatever
ball I think will work best for me at the time.


   
Date: 15 Feb 2005 22:54:41
From: Edward \(300\) DeGraaf
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
"jerri" <jerri77@aol.com > wrote in message
news:j1c111dncu7sdnji9vnm3jkrqae83irnb2@4ax.com...
> AMF is the only brand I will NOT use. Other than that I use whatever
> ball I think will work best for me at the time.

That's your loss. AMF has been doing very well on the PBA tour. I don't know
anyone who took a chance on AMF bowling balls and said they were junk.
Magazines "Bowling This Month" and "Bowler's Journal" have been very
positive regarding AMF bowling balls of late.

Edward DeGraaf,
USBC Certified Bronze Level Instructor.
Latest 300 Game - 09/30/2003.




    
Date: 16 Feb 2005 14:06:12
From: jerri
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:54:41 -0500, "Edward \(300\) DeGraaf"
<edward300@spamwowway.com > wrote:

>"jerri" <jerri77@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:j1c111dncu7sdnji9vnm3jkrqae83irnb2@4ax.com...
>> AMF is the only brand I will NOT use. Other than that I use whatever
>> ball I think will work best for me at the time.
>
>That's your loss. AMF has been doing very well on the PBA tour. I don't know
>anyone who took a chance on AMF bowling balls and said they were junk.
>Magazines "Bowling This Month" and "Bowler's Journal" have been very
>positive regarding AMF bowling balls of late.
>
>Edward DeGraaf,
>USBC Certified Bronze Level Instructor.
>Latest 300 Game - 09/30/2003.
>
It's your loss that you stick with one brand. There are a lot of other
good balls out there . You should try them. I have a much better
chance of finding a ball that suits my game by not limiting my choices
to one brand. As far as the PBA tour, there are VERY FEW people
visiting this NG who roll a ball like the bowlers we see on TV.

I see bowlers come into the shop all the time and want a ball because
somebody did well with it on TV. Some times its the right ball for
them but most times it isn't. If they do get that ball they just don't
understand why it doesn't roll for them like it did on TV.

For the life of me I don't understand why it's worse for me to be
willing to roll all brands of equipment except for one while you
insist on "sticking with AMF".

BTW, I never said AMF balls were junk. You'll have to blame that on
someone else. My prejudice against AMF is for a different reason.


     
Date: 16 Feb 2005 18:24:34
From: John O
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
>As far as the PBA tour, there are VERY FEW people
> visiting this NG who roll a ball like the bowlers we see on TV.

My ball rolls just WRW Jr. Except, I'm not as accurate with my line or
speed, and I can't adjust as well, and my release is less consistent. But
otherwise...yeah, I'm just like him. LOL

-John O




      
Date: 16 Feb 2005 17:55:29
From: JimD
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
Have the same problem, John. Somewhere I heard the
best thing is to have your revs match your speed. I'm
having trouble getting my speed down to 2 mph.

Jim
Enjoy! Friendship is the best part of bowling.
"John O" <johno@#no^spam&heathkit.com > wrote in message
news:CdMQd.6122$Fw7.3850@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> >As far as the PBA tour, there are VERY FEW people
> > visiting this NG who roll a ball like the bowlers we see on TV.
>
> My ball rolls just WRW Jr. Except, I'm not as accurate with my line or
> speed, and I can't adjust as well, and my release is less consistent. But
> otherwise...yeah, I'm just like him. LOL
>
> -John O
>
>




       
Date: 17 Feb 2005 00:56:04
From: John O
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
> Have the same problem, John. Somewhere I heard the
> best thing is to have your revs match your speed. I'm
> having trouble getting my speed down to 2 mph.
>

Seems like the sweet spot would be around 6 or 8.

-John O




 
Date: 13 Feb 2005 16:30:28
From: Mark
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?
>Uh, if they give you money to use their product :)

Free balls and some help with your game works too. There are a number
of folks on ASB that are associated with ball companies in various
ways, some regional staff, some shirt staff, a few ball testers,
several pro shops that are aligned with a company or two, and we used
to have a couple PBA ball reps here as well.

> So, is there any real reason to be brand loyal?

Unless you are a sponsored player there is no a priori reason to be
brand loyal so throw whatever strikes your fancy. My only advice if you
go with multiple brands is to build a varied arsenal - there is little
point to buying the same type of ball from each company. My opinion is
that each of the major manufacturers offer a sufficient number of very
good balls from which most anyone can build a nice arsenal. You will
find that much like there are Ford guys and Chevy guys, folks take
their bowling ball brand choice very seriously.

With all that, many folks choose to stick with a single brand (or
perhaps two brands) because it allows one to build arsenals without as
much guess work. For example, I'm a Roto Grip guy. I know a few guys
associated with the company and the balls work very well for me. At
present I have about 8-10 of the current Rotos and I have a very good
idea of how each ball in my collection lines up compared to the next
one. It's been easy to build an arsenal with Roto because they have a
fairly small number of balls out and each one does something different.


Another regular on ASB is Jeff P (Yanksfan). He's a C300 guy and could
tell you about how great it is being associated with that fine company
and how staying within their lineup helps him cover the conditions he
faces.

One exception to staying with "your brand" is when a different
manufacturer comes out with a "must have" ball. While the definition of
"must have" may vary, there are times when a clearly superior product
comes out. For example, in the early 1980s when the urethane Angles and
Faball Hammers came out if you stayed with plastic pancakes you were
DOA. A few years later when resin was sorted out that coverstock
material displaced unadulterated urethane rapidly and you wanted to be
throwing one (Crush, Rhino Pro, Cuda/C, Teal "dumbell block" Storms). A
couple more years down the road Brunswick had the Zones and PowerKoil
coverstocks and then Hammer re-emerged with the violet 3D Offset (mass
bias ball). More recently we saw the first particle balls that really
worked (Azure ProZone) and recently Storm had the X-Factor which uses a
trick core with a very strong coverstock.

In between there were a lot of great products so I'm sure I missed
someone's personal favorite and don't mean to start a "which ball is
the best" thread - just providing some examples of why one might switch
between brands at various times.

Another reason to switch brands is sometimes you just need a new look
to give your game some spark or to help you match up better to the
patterns that you are seeing. We've heard a lot about that on the
national PBA tour recently with Duke and Amalletto swtiching equipment
vendors and winning titles soon thereafter. For example, for years
Brunswick was associated with a lack of length (early roll) while
C300/Track has been associated with balls that go longer and really
pop. OTOH, Storm and Ebonite have typically providing a range of balls
with different properties.

Best luck, hope the rambling above helped some, and remember that while
the balls are important and equipment is fun, it's how you throw the
ball and your mental game that will make you a winner. Keep practicing
and working with your coaches and I'm sure you'll have a ton of fun and
do very well indeed.

Mark



 
Date: 13 Feb 2005 16:48:57
From:
Subject: Re: Any advantage to sticking with one ball manufacturer?

"twobirds" <notareal@eaddy.com > wrote in message
news:HaKdnQBZN-46VZLfRVn-qw@bresnan.com...
>
> So, that leaves me wondering if there is a school of thought with reasons
to
> be brand loyal with bowling equipment. So, is there any real reason to be
> brand loyal?

Uh, if they give you money to use their product :) ? Then again, 99.9% of
us will never experience that.

I mainly throw Brunswick because my pro shop guy is sponsored by Brunswick,
so that's basically all he sells. I've been happy with their stuff, and I
know how each of their newer balls work on different conditions. Plus, over
the last two weeks on TV both Duke and Amleto have won titles using
Brunswick, which gives me confidence in throwing the same equipment. If I
had to add a Storm or Columbia ball to my arsenal it would be trickier to
figure out what it would replace of the stuff I already had. Not that those
companies don't make quality equipment, I just wouldn't know where to start.

Is is better to be impartial on situations like this? Yes, I would say so.
Not sure how many pro shops are these days though.